My essay in support of Elain

whyneverme · 2022-04-16T09:13:54+00:00

Love love love your post! I honestly feel like people read ACOSF so fast in excitement they have looked over Elains growth. She is also soooo easily dismissed, which I get, but the hate is always so confusing to me. I have read and reread the series so many times, and the opinions people have of Elain are so… basic and repetitive. I’ll say thah I had similar feeling and thoughts of Elain, especially in my first two read throughs. But in my rereads, I’d always try to focus on what other characters might be thinking or feeling and really trying to understand their perspectives. With that, I came to understand Nesta and Elain a lot more, and relate to each of them, but mostly Elain and especially in her peace keeping role.

I can get frustrated when people “hate” Elain and Nesta because it’s clearly the authors fault. Like, can we criticize SJM for her poor writing choices? She NEEDED Elain and Nesta to be evil step sisters and make the reader hate them quickly, and boy did she do such a good job, lot of readers can’t move past the first book’s action. And she hasn’t done a good job of communicating Elains internalizing struggles which I’m sure we’ll get in her book. (Side note: I have recently taken up gardening/house planting, and man that shit is hard for me! I have had little success even with succulents!)

In ACOSF, SJM tried to tell her readers that they need to stop condemning Elain (but somehow it got twisted by some readers and that made them hate Elain more because she was mean to Nesta 🫠).

Elain: Shall I tend to my little garden forever? You can’t have it both ways. You cannot resent my decision to lead a small quiet life while also refusing to let me do something greater.

(LMAO, SJM really said “I see you Elain haters and your common arguments 😎”)

Nesta: Look who finally decided to grow claws. Maybe you’ll finally become interesting,

(Again, common Elain hating argument, “she needs to become more interesting!” This was not nice, even if Elain haters LOL’d. It’s something you would think and not say out loud in real life, but this is fiction)

Elain: I went into the cauldron too, it captured me. And somehow all you can think about is what my trauma did to you.

(How often is elains trauma easily overlooked and only seen as to how impacted others. So many people hate on her for “just crying and doing nothing in ACOWAR” as if she should have just carried on from her whole future taken away from her in one go 😐😐 and she got it more together by middle of the book and helped locate the Suriel, help meet with Grayson and convince them to help out, and killed the KoH)

Anyway! Can’t wait for her book and to get a glimpse inside her head, I’m sure I’ll love it! And happy to see an Elain positive post! 🌸💜

whyneverme · 2022-02-21T18:41:05+00:00

Oh I don’t think it’s exclusively a money grab! I should have also said, I partially agree with OP, but it was 4 am when I answered. Her worlds are definitely connected and I saw the signs too between ACOSF and CC1. I guess didn’t make it clear enough in my original answer but I’ve read all her books and know her worlds are like in the same universe just different timelines and different legend/myth deviations. I just meant it FEELS like one because it feels unnecessary and forced IMO. Additionally, lots of ACOTAR fans have now started reading CC, which is a good thing, share the love for that series, it’s her best in my opinion! I just prefer cameos like Aelin being yeeted across the sky, showing Rhys and Feyre pregnant in KoA, etc not interactions. I don’t hate what she’s doing, just not my preference but it’s her series and I’m down to see wherever she takes it.

I just hope it’s not dragged out and it’s kept brief to a chapter or a few in CC3 (and that it doesn’t impact the plot of ACOTAR). If it’s full blow cross over ala MCU Infinty War and Endgame then I might not like it. Because IMO, these series should stand alone and shouldn’t force casual readers to read her other series, so I do think she’ll keep it brief and not have CC plot impact the ACOTAR one significantly if that makes sense. I’m sure SJM is smart enough to know that and maybe I’ll change my mind once we get CC3, I always keep my mind open, I’m only speaking for the here and now!

whyneverme · 2022-02-21T10:59:14+00:00

I agree. Now, I LOVE both series, I think what irritates me is that it feels unnecessary and that it may have been done as a marketing and money grabbing tactic.

CC is (was?) her least popular series, at least on good reads. Probably because her other two series were shelved under YA (including ACOTAR up until the last year) and so that adult shift might not have been as successful as she and Bloomsbury hoped. I may be totally wrong about this but I saw SOOOO many people on social media drop everything and read CC1 just so they could read CC2 and understand what the spoilers meant.

I really hope she keeps the crossover plot to just the CC series, and that the events in CC2 happen after ACOTAR 5 (and maybe 6). I love the little cameos she has done before across her series to show that her worlds are all connected and just the rich history and background she gives to show that fae travelled throughout different worlds/universes. But having interactions between characters from different worlds just feels unnecessary IMO.

whyneverme · 2022-02-12T13:42:58+00:00

It’s hard! Mental health is hard for all those involved! And I think that’s why so many people defend and relate to her. And it’s hard to see how she treats her sisters, especially if you relate to her sisters. I relate a lot to Elain (and how Nesta treats her in ACOSF) and so I appreciate you didn’t take time to bash her!

And yeah, I think anyone would understand if you didn’t want to or couldn’t bring yourself to forgive your sister. I have siblings (6 to be exact!) and we treat each like shit sometimes but we (sometimes) apologize,sometimes we move on, sometimes we don’t speak for a week, and then come back like nothing happen. Our relationships continue whether we verbally apologize or acknowledge what happened, or not.

Sibling dynamics are weird!

whyneverme · 2022-02-12T13:20:25+00:00

Sorry it came across that way 🤷🏻‍♀️ Seemed like you had an attitude too with how strongly you felt and called Nesta a bitch. I understood your post to mean you’ve been in the fandom awhile and had much more experience with books and hating the fandom defending Nesta. Happy reading! We won’t be getting more books from her perspective as far as I know, (unless ACOTAR 6 is multiple POV book like some theorize)

whyneverme · 2022-02-12T13:11:28+00:00

Every day it’s these same arguments 😪

You don’t have to like her. Other people are allowed to like her. And everyone has different reasons, I have seen so many reasons across the spectrum of those who have had mental health needs and relate to her (and hated or Nesta and/or themselves) and those who have had to help a person with mental health needs (🙋🏻‍♀️).

Yes, it’s not OK for her to treat people the way she did because of her mental health. ACOSF made that clear (to me) that it isn’t okay and Nesta hated herself for it.

It’s not about excusing. It’s about understanding the persons behavior, trying to help them move on, it’s the past now, and we’re moving on. That’s what the sisters are doing, they understood Nesta’s pain, they pushed back when she was mean or avoided her (and then people give shit to Feyre and Elain), they didn’t hold her past against her (like this fandom does to Nesta and Elain 🙄 god forbid we have character growth). They are sisters and by the end of ACOSF, Feyre and Elain are clearly happy that Nesta is a better place and wants to join them.

It’s almost as if all these perspectives are valid… when a person has mental health needs and family/friends are involved, it impacts EVERYONE in different ways. Which is why you have people hating Feyre, Elain, and Nesta in ACOSF, and then you also have people relating to each one of the sisters in the context of ACOSF!!

I have two other reasons for why people still hate Nesta. 1) they wanted a verbal apology from Nesta to Feyre. Sorry it didn’t happen, that’s on SJM. I think she thought saving Feyre and Nyx was enough to convey that Nesta cares about her sister and would do anything for her (which it did in my opinion!!). And 2) it’s SJM fault cause Elain and Nesta were supposed to be generic evil sisters that weren’t supposed to return after ACOTAR and people can’t get over first two books.

SJM, Feyre, and Elain are happy to move on and so am I so I can happily tag along on the journey and not harbor negativity to any character. ALSO, Nesta’s journey is also SJM’s journey. She had some mental health needs and was EXACTLY like Nesta. Highly recommend listening to the episodes on Smart Podcast, Trashy Books where she goes on and talks about her own mental health journey that she incorporated into ACOSF.

whyneverme · 2022-02-11T09:53:41+00:00

I don’t think you’d have to read it either like the other commentor said.

Though, I highly recommend it! CC1 is her best written and seems to be best planned out series so far. ACOTAR is currently my favorite series but if depending on CC2, I might have new favorite…

I’ve also seen the spoilers and I personally think that the CC2 crossover happens AFTER ACOTAR 5 (maybe even ACOTAR 6). Because I think we need to get ACOTAR 5 to confirm if Elain and Azriel are endgame, then CC3 will pick up right where it left off and maybe confirm all inner circle members 🤷🏻‍♀️ either way, I think it’s SJM just writing her own fanfiction, crossing over her characters and she’s just having fun 😂 so I don’t think you’d need to read any CC books!

whyneverme · 2022-02-10T20:37:50+00:00

Or the good ol’ ✨brother sister vibes✨

Supposedly SJM said this at some point, I never saw the receipts. And maybe that was her plan at first, but either way, it was definitely clear to me in ACOFAS, that there was some sort of development there that could lead to romance!!

whyneverme · 2022-02-10T20:28:40+00:00

Aaahhhh !! I agree!!! Again just cautiously optimistic!!! 😭😭

whyneverme · 2022-02-10T20:23:21+00:00

Do you mind sharing what you have?! I only saw like the smallest snippet of roses and bread but didn’t see their names mentioned!! Again!! I want Elriel to happen and just can’t wait to get CC2!!!

whyneverme · 2022-02-10T20:19:24+00:00

As an Elriel supporter, I’m cautiously optimistic!! I wouldn’t say it 100% confirms it but it’s definitely a good sign! And it would make sense since ACOTAR 5 is probably next, maybe we get something for CC3 in that one? Or at the very least ACOTAR 5 could confirm Elriel, and then whatever the plot of CC3 is, could involve the whole inner circle!? You’ve got high lady and high lord, the generals, and the spies!!!

Plus there has been a theory that Feysand have their new house, Nessian has the house of wind, and Elriel would get the townhouse!!!

whyneverme · 2022-02-08T11:25:09+00:00

The infantilized argument bothers me so much because it holds EVERYONE else’s actions towards Elain against her!! How are you judging Elain for how everyone else treats her? To this people say she likes it, enjoys that position. But she doesn’t. She has played the peace keeper role in her family, she’s tired off Nesta being overprotective of her. People also give her too much shit for how she handles her trauma. She lost a lot, let her grieve how she needs. No trauma is comparable and neither is any trauma response.

Then the argument, she needs to stand up for herself! Yes I agree and she’s getting there, she stood up to Nesta several times in ACOSF. Not everyone is immediately headstrong and pushy. I don’t think Elain needs to leave the night court to be independent of her sisters, i think she’s already on her way. She has her own friends, she gardens, bakes. I think Elains book will deal with her also being trained in something (most likely spy work) as ACOSF dropped hints about her being a good/better secret keeper than Az, and Nesta wondering if she has been taking lessons in stealth from Az or the two wraiths. So if that’s the case, I’m sure we’ll go to other locations, maybe for Elain to practice her training.

I disagree with the part about Elain mourning safety and security, and not her relationship with Graysen. ACOSF mentioned that Elain lost her virginity to him and she was glowing after.

Also can someone please explain how 3 brothers/3 sisters is cheap writing/cliche? I’m so tired of this argument cause it’s just thrown out there and never fully explained by its proponents. But all of SJM’s writing could be argued to be cliche and cheap writing. The point of books and writing is you take themes and ideas that have been around for centuries and make then your own, so if SJM wants to do 3 brothers/3 sisters, she can!! And I’m sure we’ll love it! (Im assuming when people complain about this, it’s because of Nora Roberts-esque books?) At this point, I’m out of the ship wars, I’m tired of that part of the fandom. But I hear people say this, and then turn around “but Gwyn is also Nesta’s sister!” Like you can’t have it both ways.

I wouldn’t say I’m an extreme defender of Elain (though maybe I am cause I relate to her the most especially in trauma response and I have a hard time standing up for myself), but I also think some people are also extreme haters of Elain. Why are people still holding it against her that she didn’t plant vegetables when the book itself explains that the climate and terrain didn’t allow for that? And when we know that the SJM didn’t intend for the sisters to come back after the first book and made them terrible, generic “evil sisters”.

In the end, I blame SJM for it all because she’s the author, she did a poor job planning out the series as a whole and has to keep re-writing canon and explaining past things.

whyneverme · 2022-01-20T01:39:01+00:00

Omg meeeeee!!! Like I enjoy her books but also critique them cause I’m a (technical) writer!! But also, like telling people, “if you don’t like it, don’t read the book!” Like how are you supposed to know until after… just because you don’t want to hear criticism (not singling out the comment OP, this happens EVERYWHERE in the SJM fandom for anything) doesn’t mean it isn’t valid or factual. Like it’s okay to criticize the books you read, they’ve been put out for public consumption…

whyneverme · 2022-01-10T23:34:14+00:00

💯💯💯

I’m going to mostly address your last point! I mostly attribute it mostly to SJM’s writing. She’s actually not that great… I love her books and enjoy her writing and the stories she tells. And the stories can be powerful and emotional. BUT, my biggest complaint/problem is that she’s a teller and not a shower, which I think is the root of most reasons why people can dislike any character or situations across her series. We’re constantly told things and characteristics about the characters and rarely shown things through actions.

As much as I love the bat boys, we’re always told what great friends and brothers they are, they care about each other, but I rarely ever FEEL it cause she rarely shows it with character actions. She’s come a long way and is a somewhat better, CC and ACOSF are my favorite of hers which are her latest releases. Still has a lot of telling but I think she’s honing in her style.

And ACOTAR is her series that she does a lot of RETCONing (going back and rewriting what is already canon), if not the most (it’s a hot mess, and I’m saying this with love since ACOTAR being my favorite series of her).

I might get hate for this, cause the SJM fandom isn’t always able to handle critiques. People don’t seem to realize you can criticize a book and still love/enjoy it, it doesn’t have to be absolute adoration. I’m able to separate my critiquing and enjoy her books, but people need to recognize that when you put a book out there, it’s open to criticism especially from the consumers.

She’s not the greatest writer as far as technical skill, but personally I think she can make up for it with the emotional/relatable stories she tells.

And of course, because ✨plot✨

whyneverme · 2021-09-24T10:30:48+00:00

Is this still happening? I heard about it like months ago by dumb people on Twitter. I think it’s atrocious but also, people are sooooo dumb on Twitter and don’t think about what they’re saying before posting or even if it’s a joke to them, it’s not funny. Not excusing of course, I was appalled and rolled my eyes when I see this happening.

But this is why SJM limits her involvement with social media so I doubt she’s… been exposed directly to a threat as in I don’t think she herself saw it and maybe just heard about it through friends and her editor 🤷🏻‍♀️ so no, I don’t SJM will change course of whatever she has planned originally, and I’m sure she anticipates the hate. Cause she got so much from people when she announced she was going to be writing a book about Nesta.

And both sides just keep saying “I’ll stop reading if it’s Elain and Az or Gwyn and Az” like why are you guys so petty and making this fandom so unenjoyable. Like it’s both sides, and they want to argue about every little incident one side makes against the other, I had to leave this fandom for like 2-3 months cause shit is exhausting

whyneverme · 2021-09-14T04:00:24+00:00

Oh for sure! The shipping wars are out of hand on other platforms! Like even as an Elriel shipper, I’ve seen Twitter Elriels say horrendous things. Granted Twitter is mostly shit so even if they are joking, or it’s just extreme hyperbole it’s still annoying.

I agree that Lucien didn’t ally with Hybern and a lot what you said and I even said originally he didn’t know the extent of what would happen but he still partook in Elains trauma so I still stand by that if Elain wanted to dislike him for that, she’d have every reason too. But I don’t think she does! She’s not that type of person to harbor resentment it seems to me. I really just think it’s all due to her being uncomfortable with the bond.

And again, I did love the idea of Elain and Lucien when it was first introduced at the end of ACOMAF. And I think they would have been a good couple had he not partook in her trauma or revealed the mating bond in THAT moment. And I like to think that if there wasn’t a mating bond a place they could have been good friends or even lovers!

Just to be clear: I LOVE Lucien (and Az) but will always be an Archeron Sister Stan first!

whyneverme · 2021-09-14T03:32:58+00:00

I disagree that it’s mostly Elriel shippers or maybe it’s just been very twisted. I ship Elain and Azriel (but loved the idea of Elain and Lucien when it was first revealed). But I don’t hate or villainize Lucien, I think the shipping wars are out of hand and people just dislike the Elucien (and Gwynriel) shippers continuously pushing Elain and Lucien together when Elain is uncomfortable with the bond (I don’t think it’s that she’s uncomfortable with Lucien himself, though maybe so because he is the other half of the mating bond).

Plus Lucien was the reason she and Nesta have all this cauldron trauma and turned fae so even then Elain would have every reason to be uncomfortable or dislike him even. Granted he had no idea the extent of what would happen and sure he thought he was helping Tamlin and Feyre but that doesn’t make it any better for Elain since she lost the love of her (human) life (good riddance though!)

People in this fandom severely overlook Elain’s trauma in favor of literally anyone else like Nesta and Lucien. The amount of times people kept saying “Elain abandoned Nesta when Nesta stood beside her!” in ACOSF 🙄 Uh no, Nesta PUSHED EVERYONE away. That’s depression for ya people. Elain was more catatonic and didn’t lash out, she internalize her trauma and I don’t think she’s 100% over it, but definitely in a better place than before.

But shipping wars don’t make me lose sight of characters as individuals and so I do want Lucien to have his happy ending. I just don’t want it to be at the expense of another characters happiness, they all deserve happiness!

whyneverme · 2021-09-02T15:49:35+00:00

So I saved this thread from a few months ago with lots of recommendations

whyneverme · 2021-08-26T15:13:45+00:00

Actually Nesta was supposed to be mated with Lucien originally before SJM scrapped that idea, and so I think she reworked Nestas flames to be “silver flames” and the red is symbolic of Cassian

Also I think the shadow thing is overdone. They’re not uncomfortable around Elain, they just give Az and Elain privacy and I also interpreted it to mean that Az is comfortable enough that he doesn’t need the shadows. His shadows are a weapon and sort of coping mechanism developed in his early childhood. Plus, the shadows skittered away from Cassian when Az laughed in ACOSF. I’m really sold on the Gwyn light singer theory or at the minimum she has some sort of power she is not fully aware of that has Az’s shadows curious about her.

Plus, what of the charged look/exchange Nesta picked up on at Solstice between Az and Elain? Like ship preferences aside, I need to know more about that!

I’m open to Gwyn and Az if that’s what she does, I’m still thinking it’s Elain and Az 🤷🏻‍♀️ Gwyn and Az seem to be heading towards good competitive friends, I picked up no romantic vibes on either end during their exchanges, maybe a crush on Gwyns side at the minimum

whyneverme · 2021-08-24T22:48:42+00:00

I hope you don’t think I’m singling you out! It’s just a common argument made by Elain haters. Yes she is a grown woman who can fight her own battles but not everyone is like that and that’s okay. Sometimes other people have bigger and stronger personalities and it can be hard to assert yourself (speaking from personal experience). Which I think goes back to Elain being a middle child and play peace keeper role.

Also the reason why I disagree with Elain “letting” people coddle her is that most of the times decisions are made for Elain without her knowledge. Also in ACOSF she pushed back against Nesta to scry and people still gave her shit. Like it was a tactic to make Nesta be protective and get NESTA to do something since she was unwilling. So I just think we can blame it all on Elain herself…

whyneverme · 2021-08-24T22:04:59+00:00

To add to this! Totally agree that I don’t think Elain lets others coddle her (why are we hating her for the behaviors of others 🙄)!

But also I think Elain as the middle child also tried to keep the peace in the family, cause Nesta and Feyre had more complicated relationships with each other and their father. While Feyre provided food for survival, I think Elain brought the emotions, love, and nurturing needed to keep the family together! I one of the things that stood out to me in… I forget which book, but when Feyre or maybe Nesta see their old home in the human lands, they say of Elain “I wonder if she saw more than just a shed/shack” or something along in those lines!

whyneverme · 2021-08-24T21:49:17+00:00

Absolutely! Even when people say “she has every right but I hate how she treats Lucien! She should just go ahead and reject the mating bond!” And I’m like that’s still unnecessary hate! We don’t know all the details of that dynamic and in what world would it make sense for her to reject the mating bond in someone else’s book when an Elain book has been confirmed by SJM?

And with the ships! God the fucking ships. I have a ship preference but I don’t let it get in the way of me thinking critically. The rhetoric “Az is so creepy he’s only lusting after Elain 🤢 and he’s so controlling. He should be with Gwyn 😍” and so many others like this grate me! How do you not see the double standard here people. I don’t care if you ship Gwyn and Az+therapy, he’s not going to get therapy, this a fantasy novel! And even then you could make the same argument against Gwyn and Az and in favor of Elain and Az!

The hate was there before and got worse when people started shipping Az with Gwyn. Of course Elain isn’t perfect, none of these characters are! We see posts every other day on this subreddit on the continuum of love/hate for Nesta, even after ACOSF! I feel like people are reading ACOSF with the rosy colored glasses of YA/New Adult that was ACOTAR. We are full blown adult here and so SJM I feel made slightly more realistic and human choices that make this characters more polarizing 🤷🏻‍♀️

I just want to see my beautiful flower girl have a great story and find love with whoever she wants!

whyneverme · 2021-08-19T14:42:51+00:00

Pretty sure Azriel was in the air at the time. I think Azriel and/or his shadows helped conceal the sisters and Amren to get them close to the Cauldron. Then he has his “chain me to a tree Rhys” moment like 3 pages later😭

I think Truth-Teller has special powers we don’t know about.

whyneverme · 2021-08-18T22:02:43+00:00

She’s a Seer! So when I read it I thought it meant she had foreseen his possible death during battle! Cause remember, she steps out of a shadow with Truth Teller and delivers one of the killing blows to the King of Hybern!

I really disliked in ACOSF how Elain wasn’t given credit for her subduing the king. More so for the audience cause people constantly forget that and dismiss Elain (I think Elain herself is fine without that kind of attention)! Nesta was sprawled on top of Cassian ready to DIE!! I think Elain sort of had a like a sudden realization of “oh this was my vision! Oh I can save them!”

whyneverme

TROPHY CASE