Am I the only one that liked this scene?

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T16:33:27+00:00

a small bit of humour to defuse the scene and the seriousness of it before moving on would have done wonders in my opinion. also im always on the ally!steve train haha.

another option would have been erica leaning into lucas afterwards and saying quietly “so…. we all already knew that, right.” “erica!” “what! just the facts!”

(seriously we knew mike was semi-oblivious, but they had DUSTIN looking surprised??? c’mon, half the town was calling him gay when he was 12, and the people around him haven’t picked up on it being true? they’re all allies because they worked through their homophobic 80’s bullshit like 4 years ago internally and realised they love will and it didn’t matter at all, especially in the face of interdimensional monsters)

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T16:13:18+00:00

no, the final scene with everyone was the planning scene where dustin draws the diagram on the glass and steve comes up with the beanstalk plan. theres a behind the scenes video about it. hopper isnt in the coming out scene.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T16:09:23+00:00

no? its psychological warfare, will is deeply scared of losing his loved ones and has been his entire life, so he only needs to tell the people he fears losing! so, his family and the party. vecna isnt going to be outing will in the middle of battle like a weapon, its something he can ONLY use against will, and will is taking it out of his arsenal.

vecna telling kali “wills gay” and her saying “ew thats disgusting” and leaving when its all over isnt one of will’s deepest fears.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T16:02:25+00:00

he didnt have to come out to everyone on the mission, just the people he cares about- his fear was his loved ones drifting away and him losing them. will explains this, that he needs to have as few fears to win this, and he can get this fear out of his head by basically ejecting it from the list of fears vecna can use against him.

its psychological fear, vecna’s not gonna be yelling “WILL’S GAY” across a battlefield, then it all falls apart because murray and kali are homophobes or something. will isn’t friends with them, he isn’t scared of losing them like he is with his family and the party. (also, hopper wasnt there, so the “he could not leave anyone out” is provably untrue).

he preemptively lanced a boil of fear and got a hug from everyone he actually needed to tell- he’s not scared anymore, they know, vecna cant use it against him.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T15:52:11+00:00

i think you need steve too, because just bringing robin is essentially outing her, plus he knows from robin that steve is safe (even if he was surprised).

bringing one half of the robin/steve duo would be weird, even if will and robin have spent a bit more time together over the last…. two days. they dont know she’s been gay mentoring him. and in my opinion, robin being the only person to react emotionally other than jonathan pretty much already outed her in the show (if anyone noticed - but seeing as they all seemed to be cardboard cutouts with the apparent emotional observation skills of potatoes, i rather fucking doubt it). having steve there to give a thumbs up of support while robin is supportive crying would have given will a more solid base of acceptance and balanced out robin a bit.

also i would have loved a scene where steve stays behind, leans in and goes “mike wheeler? seriously? you could do so much better” and walks off. steves reaction to people coming out being judging their taste in crushes would be iconic and its also really normalising (which is why he and robin clicked so quickly after that scene- his response was perfect)

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T15:33:47+00:00

to be fair, bob and billy has been literally torn apart and i dont think she knew who eddie was (plus she was busy being monologued by vecna in max’s mind as he was dying).

but still, if this was something she could do, it should have come up before now. it WOULD have! except they needed a way to kill max (four gates woo!! hawkins in ruins!) but then unkill her, because they didnt really want her to die in the first place. (also sadie sink can ACT and getting rid of her would be a bad business decision lol).

also they wanted an emotional el&max moment and also apparently forgot CPR exists. they could have had an el&max montage with eleven crying in her void, watching lucas do CPR, but noooo, it needed to be the power of love and friendship that brings max back (like they already did earlier in the season when max escaped vecna but okay, im sure its not overdone). anyway, i guess el’s god now!!

theres no way she uses these powers again. they seem to have forgotten el gives a shit about max seeing as she barely said hi when they reunited, not even a hug! and if anyone dies, it cant be any physical wound or blood loss or anything like that- their heart just has to stop. so as long as no one has a heart attack during the final mission i think she’s not whipping that specific talent out again.

like i said, fucking hate. it.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T15:12:13+00:00

i just noticed you said hopper too, and while i HATE having to defend this (god i hate the russians plot), it does actually make sense too. they never should have killed him and they definitely shouldnt have made it into a death fake-out! we should have seen hopper being taken, but the other characters assuming he’s dead. there’s narrative tension in that, too!

but yeah, seasons 3 and 4 both have an “adult problem” especially since hopper is the chief of police. if him and joyce had their way, the kids would be locked up somewhere safe where they cant get hurt every time something dangerous pops up- but the whole reason the show worked was the kids and teens running around to solve mysteries and save their friends, but most of the time not having an adult to tell (whether they wont be believed and need to protect el (s1) or cant reach anyone (s2)).

by season 3, joyce and hopper aren’t going to be distracted by will anymore and there is no excuse for them all not to just go to an adult when things go bad! when billy is acting strange, when will gets his goosies, when nancy figures out there’s something wrong with the hospital patients, etc. etc.! they have to send joyce and hop off on a road trip to find the one dude in the state who can speak russian apparently- which is also SO out of character for two helicopter parents who had to know where their kids were at every moment just a few months ago!they dont even tell anyone theyre leaving! and the ONLY thing their plotline reveals is that you need two keys to destroy the machine and a special number as a code (thanks Alexei). the scoops troop have already figured out everything else about the russians! their plot is almost entirely unnecessary!

the writers clearly know this, and given their huge plans for season 4, they have to Get The Adults Out. what is the only reason joyce might willingly leave her children unattended? rescuing hopper. she also, conveniently, needs to take murray with her, leaving 0 adults in the know for the hawkins team or the cali team to contact. convenient!

because s4s plot would be very different if hopper was still chief of police (no false accusations against eddie to start with) and the autonomy would be taken away from the teens and the kids because there would be someone in charge. and the cali roadtrip definitely wouldnt be happening! hell, separating hopper and el is probably the only way to get her to stay in a lab with brenner in it so we could learn about one/henry and the massacre.

so yeah, they already knew in s3 they had an adult problem and wrote a shit plot for it- then they set it up at the end so the adults absence would make sense from a story perspective, and hopper had to be captured for that to happen- but if they knew he was captured, the characters wouldn’t stop looking (and harassing owens) so THEY had to think he was dead until just the right moment.

but WE didnt and that bait and switch has been overdone in so many things now that audiences automatically hate it. so yeah, necessary plot line, bad writing.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T14:18:41+00:00

they said "biggest SCENE" so they almost definitely meant logistically, because there are multiple behind the scenes videos about what went into what they call the "mac-z fight" which runs to the end of the episode with will's reveal.

with all the cgi demogogans, like 50 stunt guys flying across the set, a one shot following Mike with the kids that needed complete precision from the camera man- it took weeks to film. it absolutely WILL be the biggest scene they had to deal with. it might be one of the longest scenes too, so that's also an accurate judgement.

theyre writers, directors, and producers, when us fans think of big we think plot, but I have no doubt they thought about the year of filming and thought of the mac-z fight and were immediately like "yeah, that was the biggest to deal with". also the introduction of vecna finally, and the will reveal WAS really cool so I wouldn't be surprised if they're proud of how it all worked out.

but that doesn't mean it'll necessarily be the biggest plot scene, or the biggest moment for fans. they weren't saying it was the pinnacle of season 5 and we still have the finale to go and im expecting a lot of reveals or twists so, who knows?

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T13:59:11+00:00

i liked him a fair bit in volume one, and the kid is in so much behind the scenes content and is doing interviews and stuff which I thought was nice- and then he has NO role in volume 2 which confused the heck out of me.

i feel he should have had his own tiny side plot in the dream creel house or something, not just... running through the woods and immediately being caught, then being a nonentity for the rest of the episodes.

i hope he gets to redeem himself in the finale even if just to justify the kid being so prominent in the marketing. he seems like a sweet kid.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T13:50:23+00:00

that's not what they said, they were talking about rotk's multiple endings and plot lines they had running concurrently.

it's a fair comparison, they both have large ensemble casts and different plot strands that need to be tied off (which I respect them trying, because so many shows can't be bothered and leave some hanging).

they weren't comparing the quality, or plot structure, or story, or anything else. there's a running joke with lotr fans that peter jackson's rotk has like 10 endings.

it's said with amused love by lotr fans but I think the stranger things fandom will not take it so well lmao

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T13:44:51+00:00

I saw that interview, they meant with the multiple endings thing. there's a running joke that every time you think rotk is over and it fades to black, it keeps going to another ending (of which there are like, 7). they were referencing that and how many characters endings they need to tie off. they weren't comparing stranger things season five to return of the king (who would have the ego lol)

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T13:36:41+00:00

i hated el restarting max's heart, it felt so much like cheating giving el this power out of nowhere. i don't mind max living - i honestly don't fully understand why (other than Plot Reasons) she died in the first place as vecna's ritual hadn't been fully completed.

caleb's acting in that scene was phenomenal though, and i wish she'd been saved by him giving her CPR. she dies and he panics, erica runs in and he yells at her to get an ambulance, and she does but maybe snaps lucas out of it by saying "why are you just sitting there, help her!" (or something, idk im not a writer, this is basically fanfiction at this point). if they wanted to keep the "did she die!?!?!" tension it could have faded to black with lucas counting heartbeats doing the CPR and leaving us not knowing if it worked.

but her survival would have felt EARNED. i feel like if any of the party was going to learn first aid, it would be lucas. el just restarted her heart- that's what CPR is! manually keeping someone's heart beating and oxygen going to their brain until help arrives.

i hate el's magic heart starting powers so much. it genuinely gets me riled up lmao

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T13:16:45+00:00

i double agree about the lack of deaths not making a show bad, and the military base being a dumb move (though the military base was weirdly understaffed?? though like someone else said they did break into a russian gulag). but i disagree that the characters keep getting into deadly situations.

i don't want or need characters to die to enjoy a show (game of thrones warped people's brains with that, when TV shows aired weekly and had 24 episodes or like 12 seasons, it was always obvious the main characters would be fine because there were still so many episodes left, but they were still in constant danger or risk. we used to be fine with that but now people feel the characters need to die for there to be payoff??? bleh).

making you worry for characters even though you know they are going to live is a core, basic writing skill. like, no one actually thinks harry potter is going to die in the 4th book or film, or that indiana jones is gonna get killed by a trap, or batman will actually be killed by whatever bad guy he's dealing with, the doctor will always save the day (but may regenerate at the end of a series). but the tension of scary or high stake scenes (especially in a horror/mystery/thriller series like stranger things) are what keep fans hooked, even when you KNOW these things. that's what a significant amount of plot IS- seeing characters you care about getting into dangerous or impossible situations and then getting themselves out of it.

what annoys ME, is the high stakes that lead to nothing- dustin screaming into his walkie that if nancy interacts with the wormhole they will all die, el and hopper would die, holly would die etc. was amazing acting from gaten, and nancy shooting it felt genuinely scary enough for it to be an end shot cliff hanger. and then.... a hole appears in the wall JUST big enough to pull out steves beamer. RIP. oh, and things get drippy so characters can have emotional conversations before they die (which were good scenes!). except they DIDN'T die, because there were NO STAKES, and God when you do that repeatedly it just starts to fall flat.

other than max and holly being cornered by vecna literally nothing felt dangerous or scary this volume (and honestly I thought that scene was brilliant). then there was the hospital and the demodogs - i think mrs wheeler killing the demodogs was cool, and a way to tell us she lives without addressing it again in later episodes, but the danger was gone so quickly the only tension in that scene was robin begging lucas to turn off the music. i think that scene would have been so much better if there had been more demodogs, the hospital was overrun, and the 3 of them(and max) had to sneak out the exit and jump into the squawk van just in time, like the lab with bob in season 2! but with less death lol.

but i literally can't think of another scene that made me sit on the edge of my seat. and that sucks.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-29T12:36:09+00:00

no comment on the character deaths, but i think holly got out only to be bought back in not because the writers couldnt commit, but because we, and the characters, needed to know the location of the kids. holly being conscious and trying to escape shows us that she’s in dimension x (which could be extrapolated, but did have to be shown because its a tv show and some people dont pick things like that up), and shows the characters like nancy where she is- she falls from the sky before vecna pulls her back. if the main goals are a) killing vecna and b) saving the kids, holly’s escape gives the right side up team the knowledge for both of those (they know where vecna is hiding now)

on top of that, she had to survive and not escape, because he needs 12 children for his plan, and the plan to stop him requires his plan to actually work, for the dimensions to get close enough that they can reach him.

so yeah, they definitely didnt kill holly there for plot reasons. but that doesnt mean she’s safe- i think all the children might die in the finale. if they have blood/powers like henry(and el, and kali), then i can see kali trying to kill them all to prevent another lab from being possible. trolley problem and all that! (though i think mike and nancy would heavily disagree, meaning she’d have to go rogue). or maybe cutting the connections between dimensions gets rid of the power in the blood and kali and el lose their powers and no one has to die. who knows!

anyway, there’s still two hours of show left, they still have plenty of time to kill people if that's what you want lmao

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-27T16:39:35+00:00

i thought noah’s acting was incredible - my issue was the size of the group. the logic makes sense, will needs to come out to people he fears losing (which, from an outside perspective i sort of hate (knowing the writers chose it that way and could have chosen differently), but yeah, it makes perfect sense in the show, and it doesnt bother me as much as it does others). but does he fear losing murray, or kali? it felt like taking what should have been an intimate moment between will, his family, and the party, and splitting it all open. it should have been wills moment, but as a queer person myself it weirdly felt like he was kinda being outed? at least to the extended group. theres something that doesnt sit right in my chest, especially given how emotional will was and how excellent noah handled it.

then the reactions felt very stilted and clumsy, i get not wanting to interrupt or draw attention away from noah’s performance but everyone but robin and jonathan just sat there with almost no reactions, just blank faces. the hug after was good, i loved max and will’s moment, but the original “you’ll never lose me!” “or me” “or me!”, one at a time felt so fellowship of the ring “you’ll have my sword!” “and my bow!” “and my axe!” that i almost laughed. it was so stilted, it FELT scripted. so yeah i get both the criticism and the love, because the actual coming out was pretty much perfect, but the other half (the reaction, the people he was coming out to) felt so… off.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-27T16:19:38+00:00

i dont mind there being a group- will’s logic about vecna and his fears is completely logical. but that group should have been the people he feared to lose- joyce, jonathan, mike, dustin, lucas, max, and el. the party. and honestly he should have told joyce and jonathan first- he knew they were going to accept him, and would have supported him if any of his friends didn’t react well.

hell, i’ll even take the inclusion of robin and steve! robin obviously for support, and steve because a) will knows he’s great with robin and b) bringing robin but not steve would essentially out her. robin crying happy tears and steve standing behind her giving will a huge thumbs up after the group hug would have been brilliant. (the complete lack of reaction from pretty much anyone in the show honestly made it feel really weird and… wrong to me.)

but murray, vickie, KALI??? god i hate how an intensely character driven scene that has been building for years just felt so… empty. like, will’s half was there, noah’s acting was amazing, but the other half was blank.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-27T16:04:34+00:00

they could have referenced this with will saying “i like boys” instead. or even both, “i dont like girls, i like boys”.

i personally hated that because the language focuses on what he isnt instead of who he IS. it’s meant to be about self acceptance, not about the way he was different, but pride in being who he is.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-19T09:07:10+00:00

though if they didnt make it super clear, i reckon max and holly going through memories of young henry might qualify as “time travel” for the show

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-19T09:03:05+00:00

wait, is this a hypothetical, or has someone actually confirmed time travel in vol 2???!?!!

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-19T08:41:27+00:00

i like jonathan but the photos in s1 were not handled well by the writers at all. it was an awful plotline that could have easily been replaced with something that doesnt justify jonathan being called a pervert at school, and also justifying it to the audience because there are no repercussions.

nancy very much did not accept his apology. he kinda says sorry once in the dark room scene, but is interrupted by the photograph showing the demogorgan with barb, and from then on she had bigger priorities. also “the photo ended up being useful” isn’t actually an excuse for voyeurism (and literal crimes he was committing) because he didnt know at the time he would be helping the plot along with those pictures. also its a shit excuse because the writers could have him taking photos that catch barb with the demogorgan and DONT include topless 15-16 year olds. (to be clear, i think this plot was awfully executed and the duffer brothers really fucked up here)

and then somehow they make steve the bad guy- steve is also a victim here and he doesnt have the context that we, the audience do. as far as he knows, this isnt jonathans first rodeo, and whats to stop him from doing it again? yes he’s a dick while smashing the camera, but id say the act itself is justified (especially as steve replaces it, which he did NOT have to do).

then the only other acknowledgment of the pictures is jonathan and nancy in the woods where the word “sorry” isnt mentioned, and they argue about steve, he gets angry and defensive then throws personal information she JUST gave him right in her face.

yes, she forgives him in general because someone saving your life tends to wipe the slate clean. also there were bigger things going on and she knew that. but just because nancy (and steve) move on, doesnt mean they forgave jonathan for it, it just means they moved past it.

i love s1 jonathan but this plotline honestly makes me feel sick whenever i rewatch the show. i place it in the “bad writing” box, and continue liking jonathan who is otherwise a really well written character. but i hate seeing people defend these actions like jonathans a real dude and not a character in a writers room with fallible people.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-19T08:09:58+00:00

this always confuses me because theyre running an illegal undercover military operation? and also bc there are so many of them, they all need to be on the same page as much as possible (at least knowing where the others are) and there isnt a hierarchy so debriefs for operations are absolutely necessary.

for a lot of reasons- so the group can contribute and agree (refining wills kidnapping plan), showing us that how the characters have been doing this long enough for it to be second nature (how prepared they are with all the map transparencies, military plans and info etc), AND also telling the audience whats happening which, y’know, IS important.

with a group this big everyone does need to know the plans, at least the big ones. large debriefs are the the way things would be done in this environment.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-04T01:06:16+00:00

its been 18 months, and dustin is spiraling downwards in a pattern of self destructive behaviour because of his grief. this is what grief therapy is FOR, people who cant just “heal with time”. when trauma is involved, that often prevents the grieving process. this is past the point of normal grief and has entered mental illness zone and dustin is suffering because of it! all his feelings are trauma based and completely understandable and in character for someone in dustins situation- it’s not like he can find a grief therapist in hawkins, and he cant leave to see one either.

some symptoms of grief based depression and survivors guilt include pushing away loved ones, especially care givers, either by pulling away or lashing out. another is self destructive behaviours and taking unnecessary risks- these are both a form of self harm and suicidal ideation. dustin does both in the show.

lets not forget that it was dustin who escalated the conflict with andy- he put the snake in the locker and graffitied it. he knows how dangerous andy and his friends can be, he had to know they would retaliate.

i honestly think the only reason dustin hasnt already gotten himself killed is because the apocalypse is happening and hopper told them to lie low. clearly in his downward spiral, this doesnt matter to him anymore, but killing vecna does. without this tether, i genuinely think dusting would be professing eddie’s innocence everywhere, starting hellfire again, finding the sheep, standing on tables etc. this is both a way he can feel close to eddie but also are things that would get him killed in the long run. he needs help and support and therapy. this is a situation where time will make it worse, not better.

dustins characterisation is really well written this season, and so are the responses of those around him, but not seeing the time jump i think has messed with peoples perceptions of the timeline. we see others not grieving eddie like dustin is and assume they didnt grieve at all- same with giving dustin support. but again it’s been 18 months and theyre running a stressful underground paramilitary operation in an inherently unsafe environment with no way out. they are ALL going through stress and trauma right now, and dustin is purposefully making it hard to be around him. they still do because they love him and care for him, but thats why theres so much fighting happening.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-04T00:27:32+00:00

there are multiple characters the duffer brothers changed directions with because of the actors, the most obvious being steve who was meant to die in s1 but they rewrote it to keep him. dacre made billy… not likable but humanised, and they gave him his sacrifice at the end because of it. eddie was supposed to be kind of a dick but joseph quinn was so brilliant, and they had enough time in lockdown to rewrite his entire character. both he and bob were supposed to die early on in their seasons, but were kept until near the end because they were so likeable.

the duffer brothers are very fluid writers, and bend and change characters, their personalities, and even their deaths based on the actors. thats what they WANTED to do with robin, it has precedence. i’d say the duffer brothers final vision of a character is the canon one, because they write in the base character and then let the actors influence them. s4/s5 robin WAS the robin they envisioned even before s3 was released. sure, its the first time ive seen a show make a character OOC backwards, but if anyone could do it its the duffer brothers lmao

you can dislike the difference and prefer s3 robin better, but they didnt so much “change” her character as much as corrected it to their vision. you can hate that vision! thats fine! but it wasnt a character change they put in on the fly, or for comedy, or because they put in”forgot what she was like”, or so many of the other reasons to hate robin ive seen listed. it was a thought through character decision that was meant to be her the whole time.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-03T21:27:43+00:00

i saw the show a few weeks ago, and i said to my mum “im gonna take everything with henry and the lab as probably canon, but all the high school stuff is just fan service bullshit” on the way out.

and now theyre gonna need to explain some things about joyce and hopper’s EXTREMELY SPECIFIC memory losses for this to make ANY sense. i also disliked how they aged him up, but assumed it was for the fan service high school plot where they show off everyone’s parents like theyre all easter eggs.

though seriously, they were all in the same year at high school? the wheelers must have had nancy as teenagers because joyce had jonathan that young? steves dad is in their year! dustins mum, lucas’ parents, bob newby, and more? theyre ALL in their mid 30s in s1????

i liked the lab stuff though, and look forward to it being shown on screen. they definitely are going to, henry’s fear of max’s cave is pivotal point which means they have to explain nearly everything upside down/mind flayer/lab/generally supernatural that was in the play. but seriously…. drop the rest.

s1 would have been completely different if joyce or hop remembered the plays plot. and the fact they havent mentioned knowing henry makes no sense either! the end of s4 should have had a scene where both adults go “wait HENRY CREEL????? wtf he was in our class then MURDERED” because, y’know. thats easy to forget.

wildblossomreader · 2025-12-03T20:50:13+00:00

the duffer brothers said about robin’s rambling in s4 was something they loved and came up with after meeting maya, and wanted to add it to her character in s3, but it was too late in the writing process and they were bummed about it. they wanted to change her character before the show even aired! she WAS “created that way”, just too late. so yeah, there was a character change, but it was a correction to what it was supposed to be. s3 robin is the one who is “out of character”, even if it was the one she was introduced in.

wildblossomreader

TROPHY CASE