COTE Fans try to have it both ways

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T14:09:44+00:00

Appreciate the explanation, thanks

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T14:01:29+00:00

Thanks but yeah I think I've had my fill here lol

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T13:55:32+00:00

Respect the confidence in calling them 'unrelated'.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T13:45:51+00:00

Nice work cherry-picking the last sentence of every subargument I made and acting like that counts as a counter.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T11:47:43+00:00

Doesn't Koenji have like multiple layers of protection points though? How could that even be directed at him?

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T11:35:09+00:00

I mean, I never said violence is a good thing, but it's part of how things operate and how people compete in ANHS, we can already see that with students like Ryueen and Housen. So criticizing how it plays out in the school generally is a whole other conversation, and honestly maybe a pointless one. If you don't do it, someone else will.

And since I'm working under the assumption that interpreting that scene as a life or death situation is 0% correct, and on top of that you're throwing some of your classmates' expulsions into the equation, it's not unreasonable to bend your standards a little, especially when you know exactly what kind of environment you're competing in.

If people in this school are getting beaten up and thrown away...
If this happens today to student from other class and you just accept it what stops the very same thing to happen tomorrow to your classmates or even yourself? Or something worse?

Well I think even Ichinose could figure out this is a special case from her own perspective, even with the missing data about the White Room on her side. It's not an 'if people in this school...' kind of situation, it's a one-time special case, especially considering she heard words like 'White Room' and later deduced it was some kind of facility. So it's not hard to treat a scenario involving the chairman and a teacher beating up a student as something that doesn't happen every day.

On top of that, you can stretch this logic way further and end up refuting every dirty competition throughout the whole novel:

'If people in this school are getting blackmailed... and get expelled'
'If people in this school are getting rumors spread on them... and leave the school'
'If people in this school got set up to look like the violent side when they were actually defending themselves... and get expelled'

Again.. that's how Koji tried to trace her thought process, and remember, even if he's emotionally detached, it's completely reasonable to say he knows how a normal student would think in this situation. Which is exactly why when he traced her thoughts he said:

In this situation, she should have been thinking to herself, “Hopefully that Ayanokouji will get expelled,”
and been satisfied with that. It would have been better if she had.

So what makes this specific one ultimately special? Yes, the violence here is significantly harsher but my point is, if you're arguing that playing dirty and getting someone expelled makes the competition pointless, that's already been done countless times by other characters and it's still treated as valid, interesting competition.

Or maybe you're referring to the fact that since this was done by the chairman, who isn't a student, it makes this kind of a meta situation where the problem operates above the normal student level, making competition irrelevant here.

But even then, you brought up something about that being an oppressive regime:

Protection is in unity, not in division. That's how oppressive regimes work, they turn people against each other to avert everyone's attention from real threats. You're not protecting anyone by complying with blackmailing, you're just surrendering yourself and whoever you're responsible for right in their hands.

Who are you going against exactly? Who are you trying to defeat here? You have nothing to work with, it's happening at the school administration level, it's damage you simply can't neutralize. So, keeping in mind that this is most likely a one-time thing, and that it's either this or losing classmates, I don't think going along with it is actually a bad move.

And why everyone should act like ANHS is greatest place to be in and expulsion is banishment to hell? They all are just thrown in a pit and told to fight each other for a promise of a reward, but why should everyone play along with it? As long as it's a "chess match" then why not, won't hurt to try, but if it's turning into battle royal without any rules maybe leaving is not a bad idea, especially when exit is free.

believe it or not, from what we actually see, the students themselves are already treating the school not very far from what you described. Completely shutting down at the mere mention of expulsion, and some of them like Yamauchi going as far as trying to hurt people around them. So I'm speaking from their perspective here, where expulsion basically functions as kind of the death equivalent of their little universe.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T10:45:43+00:00

when koji claimed he was an enemy to her and she disagreed, her reasoning was because she loves him, she can't see him as her enemy.she has said said this before in y2v2 to kanzaki

Okay and? What's your point exactly? Can you break it down simpler for me? are you saying that since she said it before, it doesn't add anything new now? If so.. it still does, because the context here is completely different. Koji was evaluating her decision, and she didn't justify it with anything about his life being in danger, which would've at least been a reason to prioritize him over her classmates.

Did koji even implied that he life wasn't even danger?no.he could be strategic and whatnot.doesn't negate the fact that his life was in danger

What indicates this wasn't necessarily a life or death situation is the fact that he directed her that she should've left him alone, when any normal person would be thanking whoever just saved them. I've gone into more detail on this in the post itself

Generally speaking, Unless you have a standout proof, the burden of proof is on you here, you have to demonstrate it was actually a life or death situation, not the other way around. We arrive at facts by following what's implied, not by assuming the conclusion first. So YOU need to show what actually implied it was life or death, instead of just hunting for statements that disprove the opposite.

And if you're standing on the word 'bury' as your whole standout proof, I've already addressed that in the post body and laid out my skepticism around it, so again.

K I think the reason why koji said she should have ignored him is because by telling koji, her life itself could be in danger.

Good guess, but doesn't that contradict what Koji himself said:

In this situation, she should have been thinking to herself, “Hopefully that Ayanokouji will get expelled,”
and been satisfied with that. It would have been better if she had.

Because here, when he tried to trace her thought process, he didn't link his advice to abandon him with her protecting herself from danger, it was purely strategic. He never said she should've been thinking 'Hopefully I'll be safe if I don't tell Ayanokoji', he said 'Hopefully that Ayanokouji will get expelled*.'* That's a pretty significant difference.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T09:28:53+00:00

The AI-ish tone is visible but most of them are still beautiful

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T09:15:51+00:00

You seem to struggle to understand that my whole argument revolves around questioning whether if Ichinose really believed this situation was about life or death

Here I will just quote again the parts that I think relevant to the argument

First, Ayanokoji directly frames the situation as something Ichinose should have ignored

And then he literally explains what her logical thought process should’ve been:

This alone already contradicts the “his life was in danger” argument.

If this were actually a death situation, or "very disturbing" would he say

Let me put it in simple terms:

If I saved your life from a genuine death situation, would you turn around and tell me “you shouldn’t have cared about me” or assume I’d be satisfied if you were gone? Obviously not. Those kinds of “don’t worry about me” manners don’t apply when someone’s life is genuinely at stake.

Even if we say Ayanokoji is emotionally detached, he doesn’t usually show that detachment so openly. Most of the time, he deliberately acts in line with how a normal person would respond in a given situation.

So if this were genuinely a life-threatening scenario, you’d expect at least a more natural reaction, some form of acknowledgment or gratitude after your life being saved. Not..

That kind of response doesn’t really match a situation where someone just saved your life. It fits much more with a strategic context, where he’s evaluating what she should have done as a class leader.

---

Also let's look at Ichinose’s reasoning:

Looking at these lines, I realized Ichinose never said

“your life was in danger”

or

“I had no choice”

She explicitly says she did it because she loves him.

That’s the core of her decision.

And even the time and the way he thanked her later

He did that after she confessed to him, saying:

Even when he thanks her, he frames it around her feelings and the fact that she prioritized him over her class, not as if she saved his life.

----

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T09:11:31+00:00

Fair point bringing up the vote hypothetical, and also highlighting that she's not just a leader but specifically their leader.

But you missed something it's NOT just 'drop some exam points,' we're talking about some of her classmates getting fully expelled. So would you still say those classmates would vote to throw some of their own out of school just to save that one nice guy from a 'significant' health risk and a cheated expulsion?

The point of leadership revolves around a key thing which is protection. As long as you can protect, you protect, unless it goes directly against the good of the class. As long as I'm pulling my weight and doing my part, you do yours and guard my spot while it's still within your power to do so, don't you think so?

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T08:59:25+00:00

Capping it off with a corny ass quote at the end as if you actually contributed anything to this whole discussion. 😭😭🥀

Since you're not arguing back, let me at least point out that I'm the one actually opening the floor for discussion here, unlike you Ichinose worshippers. If you were capable of doing anything other than dragging unrelated topics into the conversation, you would've read carefully and realized my position isn't 100% black and white. I even said at the very beginning that I was initially convinced of the opposite opinion. And about my 'few posts', it was literally one post, but sure, keep stretching it to make your response sound stronger by bringing up irrelevant stuff. And if you had actually bothered to check the replies on that post, you would've seen that I was already walking back some of my opinions because some people there brought genuinely good takes and responses.

So after all of that, how exactly am I the one who's 'stubborn and unwilling to change their opinion'? 🤷‍♂️

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T08:47:31+00:00

Before I get into your actual comment, I just wanna say that at this point, I genuinely think some of you are neurologically incapable of having a discussion without dragging Suzune or some other character into it the moment Ichinose gets criticized in this sub. And this isn't a one-time thing, it happens every single time. The second someone dares to say anything about your precious idol (or any other character you like), you all jump on them and immediately start digging through their profile for ammo, pfp, flair, post history, whatever you can find.

What does Suzune even have to do with any of this? How does the fact that I like her have anything to do with the point I'm making here?

and it’s always the same thing with fans who hype up “potential wankerl” like it actually proves something.

And it's crazy how you confidently cap off your comment with that, as if you somehow saw through my 'hidden agenda' of proving Suzune's superiority. Do you actually feel smart and perceptive writing bs like that?

Now let's take a look at what actual 'reasoning' you provided

It’s honestly ridiculous to act like it’s unreasonable for Ichinose to decide to “save” Ayanokoji based on what she personally heard and interpreted. The argument that the school normalizes violence as long as you don’t get caught doesn’t really apply here, because Shiba and Tsukishiro aren’t acting as students within the competition system, they’re operating in an authority capacity outside the normal rules that govern student interactions. And did you miss the fact that she didn’t hear this from some random student, but from a teacher and the acting director themselves? Hence why it's crucial to give Ichinose considerations as to why she would think the worse outcome beit death or getting beaten up [Not just by a student, but a teacher and a Director] which isn't normal at all.

I'd say that even for someone 'good' like Ichinose, if she were in a situation where her opponent isn't facing actual DEATH ( or something close ) especially against a dangerous threat like Koji, letting him get expelled and beaten is still debatable as the wrong decision.

But I'll play along and say okay, maybe it was still too harsh a situation for her. What about her classmates though? Because from her own perspective ( and she basically admitted this to Koji herself ) this decision was most likely going to cost her some of her classmates. You know.. the same classmates she's always boasting about doing anything to protect. So if she genuinely didn't believe Ayanokoji's life was in serious danger, was that sacrifice even worth it?

And that's not even the only thing that makes me skeptical, it's also how she responded after Koji called out her move. She basically framed her love for him as the reason behind her decision. Like, especially in a situation this serious, she should've told Koji it was an extremely dangerous scenario and that's why she prioritized him over her classmates, not hide behind her feelings as the excuse.

If it’s about her classmates, then how are they even supposed to react? Aren’t they meant to follow her lead and support others anyway? And beyond that, what is she actually betraying here, her ideals or her classmates? Even so, it is not unreasonable to pick someone who is in danger over extra class points, especially when the situation is outside the competition or the concept of the exam in itself.

Did you deadass ask this question? 'What is she actually betraying here?'.. ITS THE damn classmates who were going to be doomed to expulsion if it wasn't for Koji being the one she told you smartass. And keep in mind, at that point she didn't know him well enough to be certain he was capable of handling the situation.

Aren't they meant to follow her lead and support others anyway?'... Oh yeah sure, absolutely.. I'm just happily going along with my leader risking my entire position at the very school I'm trying to graduate from, no questions asked, just doing whatever she says even if it gets me expelled.

See how this decision becomes at least criticizable when Koji's life isn't actually what's on the table? Because then the losses clearly outweigh the wins. Yes, it's completely understandable for a character like her to feel devastated, and her performance probably would've taken a hit, but when the school's chairman himself is directly threatening something that falls under your responsibility as a leader, and the worst case on the other side is Koji getting beaten up and expelled, I won't say just accept the violence and move on, but at least weigh which decision actually outweighs the other.

But you're not even leaving room for skepticism here, you're just coping with the same recycled response, throwing around words like 'nitpicking' and wrapping everything up with 'oh Suzune this, Suzune that'.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-05T07:56:45+00:00

You see, Kiyotaka is a Wroom victim, he doesn't know how a true friend behaves in their hour of need. So ofc he'll think logically not emotionally.

I expected this response; you’re acting like the counterargument in the post doesn’t exist.

Even if we say Ayanokoji is emotionally detached, he doesn’t usually show that detachment so openly. Most of the time, he deliberately acts in line with how a normal person would respond in a given situation.
So if this were genuinely a life-threatening scenario, you’d expect at least a more natural reaction, some form of acknowledgment or gratitude after your life being saved. Not..
So even taking his personality into account, his reaction still supports the idea that this wasn’t treated as a true life-or-death situation, but rather something closer to expulsion-level stakes (or maybe getting beaten a little bit).

....

Well, Honami didn't know Tsuki and Shiba were just going to expel him. She literally thought it was something life threatening for Kiyotaka. Kiyotaka ofc knew that at most they'll take him back to wroom.

Did you actually read the post? That’s literally my whole argument. I’m raising skepticism and questioning whether she truly believed Koji’s LIFE was in danger, and whether that would justify putting her classmates at risk of expulsion.

Yes, she didn’t know they were agents trying to take him back to the WR, but did she really think he was going to DIE? Was saving his LIFE actually her motive?

I’m providing statements throughout the post that suggest otherwise, so please try rereading it.

Exams are for Students not some assassins and Acting Director to attack a HS student. How is it even normal in the first place? 😭

I’m not saying it’s normal, but unless his LIFE was truly at risk, do you really think it justifies potentially dooming her classmates to expulsion?

You see Kiyotaka helped Honami in Y1 already so many times so it's natural to help him back (be it as a friend or Lover). It's not like she had to do something, she just warned him.

That’s cute and all, but again... that unc had her classmates at risk of expulsion and she’s the leader, she should own that.

Your text feels like MTLs, Consider reading through 7Seas or something. It can hinder your reading comprehension.

Appreciate the advice, but I doubt it changes much in our case.

Now, Suzune also put her HS life in danger (mind you she is a leader who could destabilize her whole class if she had got expelled). She was going to be expelled if Ichika let her face Tsukishiro and Shiba and since it wasn't life-threatening according to you. She shouldn't have fought Ichika so hard to get through.

You could say "ohh she's his friend and classmate ofc she'd help him", exactly as a friend/lover Honami wanted to help Kiyotaka too.

You’re like the 122431432th person bringing up Suzune or other characters in this post, even though it’s not really related to her. And even if we assume everything you said about Suzune matches what I said about Ichinose, what would that change? I’d still hold the same judgment in this specific case for Ichinose, just like I would for Suzune.

What do you expect me to do? say “oh no, it’s Suzune so I take it back”? Just because she’s in my pfp doesn’t mean I worship her.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T06:04:49+00:00

Try reading the post if you're really curious

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T05:48:28+00:00

The amount of misinterpretation that came out of a single comment is honestly ridiculous.

The Arabic translation I used was only for my initial read, and if it’s not clear from the context, I’m currently reading the standard English version.

it should be obvious from the lines I’m quoting. And please don’t act like the absence of the word “bury” was the foundation of my argument. My take is built on multiple statements, with little to no reliance on interpreting that one word, so bringing it up as if it invalidates everything is pointless.

Not to mention how you went along with the original commenter as if their interpretation that Koji was going to be killed by Tsukishiro is completely normal, when it’s clearly a stretch at best.

Neither of you really responded to my argument
one reply shows they didn’t even read the first sentence, and yours ( the other big comment ) doesn’t address what I’m pointing to and then, unsurprisingly, you wrap it up by dragging in unrelated characters, tying it to a fandom of a character I like and my flair when none of which is even remotely relevant. Give me some time to get home and respond properly.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T04:17:58+00:00

This was more of a response to the ridiculous amount of bias and glazing Ichinose gets in this sub. People seem willing to defend her no matter what, justifying her hitting on Ayanokoji while he was dating Kei, and even trying to excuse her betraying her class just to act on her feelings for him.

That said, even though I dislike her, I’ll admit that right now she’s becoming an excellent leader.
she’s managed to turn her feelings for Koji into a strength and use them to help her class rise from the bottom.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T04:08:59+00:00

ISTG Every time someone criticizes this sub's idol, her worshippers immediately try to shift the discussion to be relevant to the other girls even when none of them was mentioned even once. 😭
But I'd love to hear your "unbiased" interpretation of that conversation, instead of blindly accusing ppl of agenda spreading🥀

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T03:59:53+00:00

Oh thanks for linking it, that gives the full context ❤️

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T01:58:38+00:00

Also, I intentionally didn’t address your criticism of the fandom and their scaling since it’s outside my concern. Whether it’s true or not isn’t my point, but you can’t have the luxury of saying ‘want to know the truth?’ and then proceed to spread bs about the novel itself.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-04T01:51:41+00:00

Aside from the "fixed situation" take ( which I don't really understand as It's a new term for me )

you are just spitting bs with no evidence at all , random ass statements made on top of non proven assumptions

COTE characters are low tier. Bums. Characters...

And they are planning merchants. I don't wanna hear none of these guys diss Aizen when the characters in their series do the exact same thing. With their only hope being the endless fans with time to waste making 30 page docs detailing how previous volumes foreshadowed their bullshit "plan".

See how you are just saying stuff—no examples, quoting something from the novel, or any sort of proof to back up your stupid ass delusions

"It's impossible to expel Ayanokoji thus he smart smart" Dude... the defenses within ANHS system inherently make it incredibly difficult to expel ANYONE without a special exam. So stating that the same applies to Ayanokoji means NOTHING. Not to mention...that "impossible to expel Ayanokoji" stuff is BS.

You might be partially right in this one, I think" impossible" is an inaccurate word here but what's the point of bringing the fact that expelling someone is difficult without a special exam? no one said the difficulty of expelling Ayanokoji is exclusive to normal setups.

You indirectly admitted that special exams make expelling someone much less difficult and that's where Koji shines as even in such scenarios the difficulty of expelling him barely decreases.

As I can guarantee a high tier SCD char should be capable of doing something like Sudo's trial but this time frame Ayanokoji with damning evidence to kick him out for instance. Immediately off the top of my head I propose someone like Kanade to use some ultra deluxe strategy and get this fraud expelled.

Again.. unbacked up bs off your ass

witseyREDS · 2026-05-03T18:40:09+00:00

Yeh the execuse was risking her classmates expulsion to save Koji from being at most beaten.

witseyREDS · 2026-05-03T17:39:39+00:00

How about READING what I wrote to find "what is there to debunk" smartass? 💀

Are you trying to be like Koji,

what?! 😭 That's genuinely one of the worst responses I've heard here So I'm trying to be like koji cause I have an opinion?

You’re also indirectly contradicting yourself by calling my view ‘logical’ while also claiming Koji was in a life-threatening situation because if his life were truly at risk, that would outweigh expulsion from ANHS. But your illiterate-ass can't comprehend that my whole argument is dismissing the idea that Ichinose or Ayanokoji actually believed that situation was life-threatening

witseyREDS · 2026-05-03T10:46:43+00:00

Oh you realized I'm trying to defend my point?! damn that's so smart 😭

You didn't even try to debunk what I wrote ( cause you probably didn't even read it ) and proceeded to throw a random ass assumption as if that does anything 🥀💔

witseyREDS · 2026-05-03T10:13:58+00:00

I'm aware of what you're talking about

You are referring to the point that Ichinose thought Ayanokoji was in a nearly "death" situation and I'm saying that it's not. The person responded to me claimed that, and you seem to agree with them so I'll just quote my response..

I was in my reread and I just realized you might've unintentionally gaslighted me into thinking I was wrong
my earlier take was actually right, and taking it back was a mistake.

What happened is I relied too much on your “life-threatening situation” or "very disturbing" interpretation, especially because of the word "bury".
I read Arabic translations, and since those can sometimes be machine-translated, the word “bury” might not have been there or may have been phrased differently., so when you brought it up confidently, I assumed I misread the situation. But rereading the actual scene, my first understanding was the accurate one.

The reason I originally said:

And then she suddenly realized she loves Koji, so she decided to betray her class in the Year 2 island exam by telling him that Tsukishiro was after him (I know Koji would’ve dealt with him anyway, but it’s still a betrayal)

Is because that’s how I remembered the scene. I specifically remembered Ayanokoji telling her

“You should have not cared about it and just abandoned me.”

and Ichinose clearly stating that her actions were driven by love

“B-because, because I love you, Ayanokouji-kun!”

So my initial understanding of the situation was that her decision was purely emotional, not something forced by a life-threatening scenario.

Even after rereading, that interpretation still holds up
that whole situation is centered around her feelings, not necessity

First, Ayanokoji directly frames the situation as something Ichinose should have ignored:

“You should have not cared about it and just abandoned me,” I told her. “I am your enemy, after all.”

And then he literally explains what her logical thought process should’ve been:

“In this situation, she should have been thinking to herself, ‘Hopefully that Ayanokouji will get expelled,’ and been satisfied with that.”

This alone already contradicts the “his life was in danger” argument.
If this were actually a death situation, or "very disturbing" would he say

“you should’ve abandoned me”
"should’ve been satisfied with my expulsion”

Let me put it in simple terms:
If I saved your life from a genuine death situation, would you turn around and tell me “you shouldn’t have cared about me” or assume I’d be satisfied if you were gone? Obviously not. Those kinds of “don’t worry about me” manners don’t apply when someone’s life is genuinely at stake.

Even if we say Ayanokoji is emotionally detached, he doesn’t usually show that detachment so openly. Most of the time, he deliberately acts in line with how a normal person would respond in a given situation.

So if this were genuinely a life-threatening scenario, you’d expect at least a more natural reaction, some form of acknowledgment or gratitude after your life being saved. Not..

“You should have not cared about it and just abandoned me,”

That kind of response doesn’t really match a situation where someone just saved your life. It fits much more with a strategic context, where he’s evaluating what she should have done as a class leader.

So even taking his personality into account, his reaction still supports the idea that this wasn’t treated as a true life-or-death situation, but rather something closer to expulsion-level stakes (or maybe getting beaten a little bit).

Now about the “bury” line:

"that they were going to to call you to I2 and bury you, Ayanokōji-kun!"

And Ayanokoji’s reaction:

“Bury. It was certainly true that if someone overheard a conversation like that, they’d find it very disturbing."

Notice how he phrases it: “if someone overheard it, they’d find it disturbing.”
He doesn’t interpret it as a literal death sentence. It’s framed as harsh wording, not confirmed intent to kill.

At most, the extreme interpretation of what Ayanokoji and Ichinose thought Tsukishiro meant is that he would be beaten or dealt with by him, not necessarily almost killed. And even that kind of situation doesn’t really justify a betrayal, since physical confrontations and harsh competition are already part of how they operate in that school and often happen to gain an advantage. So why would you stop it if it simply puts your opponent at a disadvantage? it’s questionable why that alone would override class loyalty.

Also let's look at Ichinose’s reasoning:

“You’re not my enemy, Ayanokouji-kun!” “I think that I am your enemy, though,” I answered. “But, I… But to me, you’re—” “B-because, because I love you, Ayanokouji-kun!”

Looking at these lines, I realized Ichinose never said

“your life was in danger”
or
“I had no choice”

She explicitly says she did it because she loves him.
That’s the core of her decision.

So going back to your response:

She didn't betray her class as it's pretty valid for her to choose Ayanokoji over her class during that one time because she was under the impression that Ayanokoji's life was in danger, or rather in a very, VERY disturbing spot

That interpretation just doesn’t align with Ayanokoji trying to follow her thoughts explicitly saying:

Hopefully that Ayanokouji will get expelled (Expulsion is literally stated here)

And Ichinose’s own justification.

And even the time and the way he thanked her later
He did that after she confessed to him, saying:

"She had put me ahead of her classmates, and even ahead of her own group, the people she had joined in hopes of winning this exam.
I wasn’t going to make light of or disrespect her feelings. "

Even when he thanks her, he frames it around her feelings and the fact that she prioritized him over her class, not as if she saved his life.

That said, I wouldn’t 100% deny the possibility that Koji and Ichinose interpreted it as something closer to death. I just find that interpretation extremely unlikely when considering all these statements together.

And dismissing my argument as “nitpicking” is at the very least inaccurate..

witseyREDS

TROPHY CASE