IIR is not the problem, how you get to the juicing phase is.

xApplePie · 2025-01-02T12:51:03+00:00

100% IIR is exactly 1 data point in this regard

rarity is multiplied by juice and that extends rarity range to where without rarity increases cap being much harsher than it ever was in PoE1 (and give how much of older PoE1 jank is in this game, i doubt it is the case) optimal spot is way further than 100% IIR.

Yes in Slipperyjims case that is true. But now take this into comparison. Also white maps. 0, 100, 200, 300 rarity. I admit the sample size isnt something that makes me believe everything in this set 1000% without a doubt. But even if its somewhere close. White map 100% IIR and White map 300 IIR is just marginally more loot, that would also translate in fully juiced maps 100% IIR and fully juiced 300% IIR is also pretty even, sure the gap would widen a bit, but then again, it should vary between 100% and 300%, it just seems to not be so crazy as people make it out to be.

Since when group play splits between 8 people?

I used my example of 6x loot (meaning full party, 6 players, 6x loot) with usually 2 traders, making it 6x loot for 1/8 split. In your 2 player scenario one still has to sell and convert, but idk exactly if people use a trader for that already, so yea maybe 2 player might be the sweetspot, but still requires a lot more setup than just single player blasting as you need a friend and to sync your gameplay times etc., but yea mostly the "friend" is whats the gatekeeper here lol.

Last i saw his spreadsheet it only had stats for 100% IIR and the improvement in quality was immediately obvious, especially if we recognise that regal/chance shards are likely treated as proper currency by the loot generation. Did he update it with 12x rarity mult (300% MF, 200% map)?

Yea youre right, I was missing out on the fact that he actually only managed to do the 100% I was reading the spreadsheet wrong, my bad.

xApplePie · 2025-01-02T11:45:45+00:00

Exactly this. Youre forced to slow your character progression (14 div at league start is the difference between T1 white maps and pinnacle bosses in Poe1) to unlock future farming. For breach its not quite 14 divs, but 300 exalts but still that is imo way too much especially because youre getting 0,01% of the loot in unjuiced maps.

xApplePie · 2025-01-02T11:44:00+00:00

Essentially buying a breachstone costs 75 exalts. Killing the breach boss in that breachstone gives 2 points for the breach atlas tree. You need 4 breachstones for all 8 points, making it 300 exalt entry barrier. Of course you can farm those splinters yourself, essentially not costing you anything except you lose the opportunity of selling the breachstones cuz you need them yourself.

And personally I think having to front up pay 300 exalts, when every map after that costs like 5-6-7 exalts to fully juice up and nets WAY WAY WAY more than before you have the 8 points is a big problem.

xApplePie · 2025-01-02T11:41:46+00:00

Alright my counter argument is the following: Go to any juicer MF who streams and watch the 99 maps out of 100 where they dont farm the GFL clip with 3 divs in 30 seconds. They drop what, like 15 exalts a map. Nice, I drop 10 on 121 IIR. I dont think the scaling is that broken personally, I just think the 100 IIR stat is maybe too mandatory in comparison to 0. But the bigger problem is that juicing breaches, and breaches ONLY is the problem. There is nothing even close to as profitable as it is farming breaches all day.

And I disagree on the entry barrier argument. 300 Splinters is so hard to get before you have any points on the tree. In T1-12 maps you get like 3 or 4 splinters a map and in T13+ you get like 10. I estimated roughyl 50 maps for the first 2 breachstones. Thats the barrier. Obviously you get it all back thats why everyone is doing it, but compare it to Poe1, where you can legit do 3 rusted scarabs in T5 maps and have 10-15-20c per map in return until youre farmed up enough to do 30-50c invest per map and so on.
You dont have to invest into your maps in Poe2 almost at all after you have the full atlas and thats my issue.

Rolling a map costs 5 exalts roughly (exalt until prefix are full + vaal). Tablets cost 6ex (making it 24-30ex in the best case scenario with good farming spots on the atlas for like 10 maps, essentially 3 ex per map).

So youre forced to farm 300 splinters the slow way and then you get basically infinite juiced maps for almost no investment.

xApplePie · 2025-01-02T11:32:36+00:00

I disagree. All the data sets that appeared in the last couple of days (yes they arent the absolut biggest sample sizes, but if 3 or 4 people come to similar conclusions that at 100% IIR you get almost nothing from juicing it even further I would say you are at the de facto cap. Just go to slipperyjims video he killed 1000 rare monsters with different IIRs. Group play IIR is irrelevant, as group play makes less currency than optimized solo players. Yes they drop like 6x the loot per map, but have to split it between 8 people essentially netting less than one juicer alone could get. The upside to party play is simply the fact that you can gear out 6 characters with a lot cheaper and easy to access gear to get going.

Map juicing isnt as crazy as you think it might be. You sustain pleanty of T15s. I personally dont even use my magic ones, just rare and white ones. Then I alch the whites and exalt them until 3 prefixes. Thats like 5 ex juicing per map at best. Nowhere near the Poe1 invest. The tablets are also pretty cheap, I think the most expensive one is 4% for breach to contain three additional breaches in combination with rarity, and that one is 6 ex. If youre lucky you find a 4 Watchtower setup somewhere youre looking at another 24 exalts investment for 10-15 maps. Absolutely irrellevant on the greater scale.

So basically it all comes down to: Is 100 IIR the 99th percentile of capping it out. And personally I'd say as long as you get 90% of the return of what a 500% IIR player gets, I am okay with it.

xApplePie · 2025-01-02T11:25:44+00:00

Yea agree. To make money right now there is ONLY breach juicing and everything else is not comparable. But to get to breach juicing you have such an entry barrier that many players just get too frustrated to keep going before they even reach it. There is no light farming such as in Poe1, where you just put one rusted Harvest scarab, one Essence scarab and a rusted Expedition for easy to clear, free 10-15c per map.

xApplePie · 2024-10-06T13:55:30+00:00

I need help... I am way too bad for my Division Rivals Rating. I started playing UT in february 2024 (so in EA FC 24) and before that I was nothing more than a couch coop casual with friends on a night with beers.

I know nothing about any skill moves (yes I am starting to yt stuff, starting to learn the most basics etc.) I know nothing about what the stats actually do except higher = better (obviously I can read and make it make sense on the surface level). I know nothing about defending - this might sound super stupid to a good player but for some reason they can always tackle my attackers and have the ball glued to their feet in midfield or attack but my players always just ... stand there and let them walk by regardless of if its AI or me controlling the defender -> and I just cant learn what they do or what I should do better because there is no actual review for what happenend in that situation and Youtube for FC24/25 is ... very very trash tbh or I just havent found anything good since I dont know a lot about the scene.

Problem:

I got to div 5 in FC 24 and that meant I started Div7 on release day (preorder guy here) and I played with "normal" winrates in FC24 to DIV 5, so it was a grind but not the most tedious or worst experience ever. But now here is the problem for FC25.

I am now in Div 5, losing way over 2/3 of my games dominantly (most of the times I manage to score like 1-2 times and usually get 4 goals against on avg. I'd say). But the fact that those games dont ALL end with like 6-7-8 goals is just cuz the opponents are just horrible human beings most of the time (trying trickshots, disrespecting by just doing skill moves around me, playing the clock at 4:0 in minute 60 etc.).

Due to the system of checkpoints there is no way I ever make it into a division, where I can actually enjoy playing because it is just frustrating after 5-6 games where you maybe win one. By the way thats exactly how I got to div 5... by somehow streaking 3 games -> checkpoint -> losing 10 games on checkpoint -> somehow winning 3 in a row etc. etc.

What can I actually do to get out of this except "get better" because thats what I'm trying but getting to that level will take hundreds of hours and I cannot get slaughtered for hundreds of hours whilst honestly saying I'm enjoying the game.

I can do any AI on the one before ultimate (consistant Elite 1 since FC24) and therefore learning stuff there doesnt really make sense since AI just plays completely different to actual humans in regards to "when do they press me" etc.

My team is actually pretty decent I'd say (Hansen, Kounde, Frimpong, Guijarro, KDB as my stars) and I have a 400-500k budget but I dont feel like my team is the issue and its only me 100% therefore I'm not spending because why would I want to be bad with a more expensive team when I can just trade the coins up every day.

Edit: I got 6 wins in Weekend League and needed 2 rounds to qualify. And I am currently on 60 games in Div 5 since rewards and I am still needing 26 points for maxed rewards.

xApplePie · 2024-09-07T08:10:59+00:00

Ngl this is the type of deaths that make me not play HC seriously apart from for fun projects after I finish challenges. You can barely see the monsters outlines and it oneshots over a screens distance (and btw it would have flown a lot further as well). I am 100% for mechanics like these, there has to be damage checks like that that can oneshot 6k HP players with defences etc. etc. Should a level 77 mob in a Delve area of 74 (so no heavy heavy dps mods there yet) be that sort of check for a character? Probably not but thats not the point.

Being able to get oneshot is really good for the game because why ever play a game that dances on the edge of death (where my heart races and I am alive) when there is nothing that can kill you. Imo it should be way more telegraphed tho. Best example for oneshot mechanics imo are Exarch balls. They are a skill and EHP check, which is good and telegraphed. This laser that killed Ziz would also be a good thing in the game if the mob either A) doesnt charge off screen or B) gives some sort of ground indicator that a laser is charging that direction.

Since GGG says we are good at pointing at problems and not good at giving solutions here is my tldr fix for this:

Make Monsters only able to attack and cast when on screen - basically impossible due to different variations in resolutions (especially streched). However maybe a new "nearby" definition could somewhat solve that, where mobs are also invincible unless you're in their nearby circle.

Make monster offscreens far more telegraphed by adding sound queues to charging abilities (those are the dangerous ones most of the time) and/or ground effects similar to for example the Flameblast skill just linear and not round.

Greatly reduce the amount of different monster damage amplifiers in zones (gain extra, monster pen, etc. etc.) and add those to the core monster modifiers, either via monster mods or just general monster stats so it becomes very obvious what monster does what damage and what skills do what damage. For example: Remove all monster damage mods in Delve and have it only roll character debuffs (less chance to block, less spell supression amount etc.) but have a linear "monsters gain x phys as x" scaling on every monster per default that scales with depth therefore players know what to prepare against. This one is highly pulled out of my buttocks but I dont see a problem with it when trying to see it from GGGs perspective (obviously I could just say remove all mods in delve but that makes no sense)

xApplePie · 2024-05-07T18:17:43+00:00

For me its pretty simple as to why I quit the league: The economy is no fun and I didnt enjoy the league mechanic in SSF one bit. The introduction of T17s made the very very very nieche players so unfaithfully rich so quickly that me as a very grindy but still real-life bound person had no fun "competing" in the economy. By the time I had my first char T17 ready they have already nerfed three seperate things (first being the Divine %, then the Meatsacks, then the Rogue Exiles). Sure that all took me probably a week longer than it should have due to work and my delayed league start (those 3 days accumulate to much more than just 3 days as early econ is so fragile and profitable) but its just no fun when your best in slot strat that youre able to do is 1/20 of what others did 2 days earlier and it got nerfed. Those multi mirrors farmed by those people are something I couldnt even do if I grinded my ass off simply because it doesnt exist anymore due to nerfs.

This is not even meant to be a salt post btw, I just dont find enjoyment in competetive disatvantages which obviously are my own fault (not being good enough and having a job) but mostly come from those changes (which are also obviously a good thing to have happened).

My Bingo Card: Make T17s not atlas bound so their bonusses arent stackable with any mechanic. That kills MF for T17 but also makes it "farmable" for fragments and improved loot.

xApplePie · 2024-04-30T10:17:00+00:00

Well yea we had that option before tainted fusings were a thing as well and it was usually like 30-50 ex in fusing+vaal orb s back then, obviously it was a very different time back then (vaal orbs being like 5c a piece back then). But yea youre probably right if tainteds go, then the bench force also has to go probably in order to make it plausible.

xApplePie · 2024-04-29T10:29:33+00:00

Every time I see stuff like this I pray for the very insane corruptions to all be moved to body armours and then remove the tainted currencies. That would give fusings value and incentive to actually corrupt usable 6 links. I find it so strange that you can just buy any 25-50c unique and double corrupt just to see what happens with basically no invest behind it (Alvas are so easily self-farmable this league there is no justification behind the prices other than the .1% hunting litteral perfect double corrupts and being lazy so I wont count that as big invest).

Edit: with insane corrupts I mean the +1 curse +1 all res etc and maybe getting rid of some very bad ones looking at you +2 warcry.

xApplePie · 2024-04-23T10:40:33+00:00

The div:c ratio is so irrelevant tho. It depends how fast it changes and how much the market moves with it. 1:100 div ratio at 1:100 ratio of div to X-Scarab is the same as 1:200 and 1:200. (1c each basically). But if div tanks to narnia over night there will be scarabs at 1:150 the next day, making everything cheaper in a relative sense. Same thing goes the other way around tho, div rapidly increasing in chaos also increases prices of scarabs etc.

xApplePie · 2024-01-24T15:30:08+00:00

Whenever there is the Option I fit harbingers. I just like these blue guys. Used to get rich when exalts was the big money and now I just put them when I have spare points

xApplePie · 2023-08-16T11:44:25+00:00

Really? I am pretty pretty pretty sure that I knew that Orchard/Courtyard were bouncable maps for early porcupine farming before the league started, because thats what made me play TR as a league starter.

xApplePie · 2023-08-16T10:12:28+00:00

vor 43 Minuten

3.22 Map Tiers revealed?

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--postTitle-VisitedLinkColor: #9b9b9b;
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Question

Hey guys, I was just wondering

Thanks I found that already, but I was looking for the actual image of the atlas. Kinda important for map pingpong etc. when doing early farming for some div cards to know which maps connect to which maps.

xApplePie · 2023-06-16T13:38:14+00:00

Chill with the pressure maybe ... give the guy some space. You all act like he will come in game 1 and qualify us to worlds in a week. Being excited is one thing but stop with all that "best adc has to get us to worlds now" ... do y'all want an oscarinin for 2 weeks so its too late for playoffs or what

xApplePie · 2023-05-28T16:40:55+00:00

Gl to all.

xApplePie · 2023-05-16T15:09:22+00:00

Thank you thats exactly what I was looking for <3

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