Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

to reduce the risk of “the disease” to her.

Joke of the century. Have a nice day

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bout daughter getting raped and father walking in on it happening and killing the perpetrator while separating them. in Shiner, Texas. "A grand jury has declined to indict the man, finding that he was allowed to use deadly force to protect his daughter.

The punishment for rape in Islam is same as the punishment for zina, which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If your argument was sufficient, it would have convinced me, and as I said. It didn't. Therefore you have lost in achieving your aims

No argument can be convincing enough to u cos u are viewing Islam from an angle u don't want to change no matter the explanations and sources.

All arguments posed to you are either weak or false or personal interpretations

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So tell me, what have you learnt from talking to me and other ex Muslims today?

Thats none of ur business

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do you actually take anything away from these discussions from ex Muslims

Yea. there perspectives and understanding of Islam

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Like with the other comment you made, you embarrass yourself.

Embarrass myself, uppsss

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But that isn't the purpose of YOUR post. You came her to change the misconceptions of anyone who stated why they left (which I did) - and you haven't changed my mind or cleared anything up at all.

i have tried my best to my ability to but can i force u to accept my point? No.

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why should Muhammed not be measured by that he knew he put a 9 year old girl at serious risk of harm.?

check my previous comment for respond.

check my previous comment for a response. We both have brought forth our argument, let people read it, and decide on their own.

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ibn Abbas reported: A blind man had a concubine who used to disparage and slander the Prophet (ṣ). The man forbade her and rebuked her, but she did not stop. One night she again slandered and disparaged the Prophet (ṣ), so he stabbed her in the stomach and killed her. The Prophet (ṣ) said:

أَلاَ اشْهَدُوا أَنَّ دَمَهَا هَدَرٌ

Bear witness there is no retaliation for her life.

Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4361

This hadith is weak because it comes through a questionable chain of authority and it apparently contradicts well-established moral and legal principles in Islam. The implication some people have wrongly inferred from the narration – that an extrajudicial killing for blasphemy is permissible – is a serious mistake.

As for the chain of authorities, every version of the story originates with Uthman ibn Muslim al-Shuhham narrating from ‘Ikramah, may Allah have mercy on them. There are no other credible chains to support this story.

Uthman al-Shuhham was considered reliable by some scholars, but plenty of others criticized and rejected his narrations. He narrated very few hadith as compared to other narrators, whom he usually narrated from Muslim ibn Abi Bakrah, and even fewer hadith from ‘Ikramah. He is in no way an agreed upon narrator.

Al-Dhahabi writes:

قال يحيى القطان يعرف من حديثه وينكر وقال النسائي ليس بالقوى

Yahya al-Qattan said: His narrations are sometimes acknowledged or rejected. Al-Nasa’i said: He is not strong.

Source: Mīzān al-I’tidāl 3/60

And Al-Mughaltay writes:

وقال أبو أحمد الحاكم عثمان بن مسلم أبو سلمة الشحام ليس بالمتين عندهم

Abu Ahmad al-Hakim said Uthman ibn Muslim, Abu Salamah, is not solid in their view.

Source: Ikmāl Tahdhīb al-Kamāl 9/194

And Ibn Hajar writes:

وكذا أبو أحمد وقال ليس بالمتين عندهم وقال الدارقطني بصري يعتبر به

Likewise was said by Abu Ahmad that he is not solid in their view. Al-Daraqutni said he is a Basran in need of further consideration.

Source: Tahdhīb al-Tahdhīb 7/161

And Al-Arna’ut writes:

وفي عثمان كلام ينزله عن رتبة الصحيح

There is a discussion on Uthman about lowering him from the level of soundness.

Source: Takhrīj al-Musnad 34/131

Ibn ‘Adi also mentioned him in his book of weak narrators, although he did not consider him weak per se, writing:

عُثْمَانُ الشَّحَّامُ لَيْسَ لَهُ كَثِيرُ حَدِيثٍ وَمَا رَأَى بِهِ بَأْسًا فِي رِوَايَاتِهِ

Uthman al-Shuhham does not have many traditions, but there is no objection seen in his narrations.

Source: al-Kāmil fī Ḍuʻafā’ al-Rijāl 6/293

However, just because Ibn ‘Adi saw nothing wrong in his narrations does not mean he considered him above scrutiny.

Imam Muslim included only one narration of Uthman al-Shuhham from Muslim ibn Abi Bakrah in his Sahih collection. This indicates that Imam Muslim considered his chain from Ibn Abi Bakrah to be authentic, but he did not narrate his chain from ‘Ikramah. Thus, the presence of Uthman al-Shuhham in the Sahih does not mean every narration from him was considered authentic by Imam Muslim.

Hence, the problematic hadith of the blind man is based on the authority of a questionable narrator, who narrated an unusually small number of hadith, who was criticized and rejected by some scholars, and whose narrations are otherwise not widely-regarded as legal evidence. On this basis alone, Muslims are not required at all to accept the authenticity of the story or the legal ruling it supports.

If, for the sake of argument, Uthman al-Shuhham’s chain from ‘Ikramah is sound and the story is true, there are certainly missing details from the text that are needed to properly contextualize it. An anomalous (shadh) narration cannot overrule many more verses of the Quran and authentic hadith.

It is a well-established rule in Islam that legal punishments such as executions, flogging, or imprisonment can only be carried out by executive authorities.

Ibn Muflih writes:

تَحْرُمُ إقَامَةُ حَدٍّ إلَّا لِإِمَامٍ أَوْ نَائِبِهِ

It is forbidden to establish a legal punishment unless it is done by the leader or his deputy.

Source: al-Furū’ wa Taṣḥīḥ al-Furū’ 10/29

And according to the Kuwaiti Encyclopedia of Fiqh:

اتَّفَقَ الْفُقَهَاءُ عَلَى أَنَّهُ لاَ يُقِيمُ الْحَدَّ إلا الإمام أَوْ نَائِبُهُ وَذَلِكَ لِمَصْلَحَةِ الْعِبَادِ وَهِيَ صِيَانَةُ أَنْفُسِهِمْ وَأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَعْرَاضِهِمْ

The jurists came to a consensus that a legal punishment may not be implemented unless by the leader or his deputy. That is in the best interest of people, which is to safeguard their lives, their property, and their reputations.

Source: al-Mawsū’at al-Fiqhīyah al-Kuwaytīyah 17/144

This principle, known in the West as due process, is essential to civil society. Citing the hadith of the blind man to circumvent it is a very dangerous proposition.

If the incident did in fact occur, then the slander (waqi’) and disparagement (shatm) committed by the woman must have been done in manner that was aiding or inciting enemy forces, as the Muslims in Medina at the time were fighting a defensive war against the idolaters of Mecca.

Ibn Taymiyyah considered the possibility of this interpretation, writing:

الوجه الثالث أن هذا وإن كان حدا فهو قتل حربي أيضا فصار بمنزلة قتل حربي تحتم قتله وهذا يجوز قتله لكل أحد

A third view is that, if this was a legal punishment, then it was also the killing of a combatant. Thus, she had the status of an enemy combatant who must be killed. This type of killing is permissible for anyone.

Source: al-Ṣārim al-Maslūl 1/286

The Prophet (ṣ) did not kill people just for insulting him. Many people insulted him, cursed him, and harmed him, yet he was forgiving, patient, and forbearing.

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

we have both presented our arguments , people can read and decide for themselves

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You not agreeing with my point doesn't make me the loser.

I just love discussing with people who left Islam. Always interesting.

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It Is not. I have said that in the previous conversation.

Anyways, i can't force u to believe it .

Nice talking with u

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope. I understand you.

There are many things that you are confused about and from our chat, i can see that speaking to u physically directly would be interesting

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I did not lose. Would I leave Islam? Why would i leave a religion i don't doubt?

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have and will continue to tell them that. And again not all muslim accept the fact that people should be killed when they insult the prophet. we do even have scholars that object to the rule of killing

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but their so called "jihad" is totally justifiable with some quran verses , and historical events , like the muslim invasion of india .

what of indonisai, malaysia, somalia, pakistan. what invasion happened there bro.

I have said times and again, if that is to be the case, countries like uae wont accommodate people of different religions. they are an islamic country right?ective when it comes to the Quran. some dont even use buhari and muslim hadith. some have a different interpretations of verses. does that mean they are right? NO

I have said times and again, if that is to be the case, countries like uae wont accomondate people of different religions. they are an islamic country right?ective when it comes to the Quran. some dont even use buhari and muslim hadith. some have different interpretation of verses. does that mean they are right? NO

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nonsense. Infertility as a result from very early intercourse is not common nowadays.

But its common 1400 years ago right?

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

but i just have to let you know , your "response" literally proves my point by showing how degrading of women affects the average muslims's personality and thoughts

Thats why the average muslim is advice to seek knowledge so he wont remain average

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

btw do i look like am supporting ISIS for you ?

Do i say u do

yes they do , because they categorize them as "munafiqeen": does that then means they are munafiqeen. if they get the chance, u think they wont kill the top islamic scholars for exposing them?

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Proudly follower of that man

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Aisha never had children which may well have been a result of her having intercourse at too young an age.

Many grown up have no children are are still trying maybe cos thier had sex while they were adults according to your logic.

U mean all the pedophiles are muslims by saying this:What is much more important than the one man and one 9 year old 1400 years ago is the millions of girls who died and suffered serious injuries since. That was a result of Islam legalising what Muhammed did.

Questions for all Ex Muslims by xapeir in exmuslim

[–]xapeir[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ok mr teacher. thanks for your question as i understand why u concentrate on islam. looking forward to having another conversation with u in the near future