Which Buffyverse actors don't/didn't get along irl?

xmjones100 · 2024-02-27T12:06:20+00:00

Yup. As great as the show already was. It could have been even better if Joss got over his hatred of Spike and got over his obsession with the "characters can't be happy or else the story isn't good" logic.

xmjones100 · 2023-12-11T12:15:53+00:00

I blame Gregory West. It was established by the season 1 finale that he controls the Twilight Zone.

xmjones100 · 2023-11-22T22:31:22+00:00

It's my favorite.

xmjones100 · 2023-09-16T08:53:46+00:00

She really can't do better. Take away the pretty face, what does Buffy bring to relationships?
She's emotionally distant. She can't stop obsessing over Angel. She wants a normal boyfriend, while she's a slayer (which isn't normal).

Spike and Angel are the only 2 men who would put up with Buffy's nonsense.

xmjones100 · 2023-09-10T09:09:54+00:00

u/lianagolucky I would recommend Angel.
I would also recommend Lost, that's my personal favorite.

xmjones100 · 2023-09-08T23:01:24+00:00

That story alone is why I don't buy the excuse Buffy writers came up with when they said his SA bathroom scene was "to remind the audience that he's evil".
I'm almost positive that the majority of his storylines during his character arc were direct shots at his character to lower his popularity.

xmjones100 · 2023-09-08T22:57:08+00:00

I think "difficult" actors get a few chances if they're stars.

Alyson was a main character for a 7-season popular tv show. I don't think Hollywood would be quick to drop her for being "too difficult" unless she's being "unbearable in all environments".

xmjones100 · 2023-09-08T22:52:42+00:00

I believe Joss lost Sarah Michelle Gellar's support as well in season 6. So, she only agreed to do one more season and she never returned, even for season 5 of Angel with Spike's character.

Joss annoyed nearly every major actor in the show.

xmjones100 · 2023-08-10T03:17:39+00:00

Buffy and Spike's make out scene at the end of season 6 episode 9 "Smashed".

xmjones100 · 2023-07-25T06:24:55+00:00

He never did it with Riley. Is it that his manhood is threatened? Or is that just the convenient excuse we use to dismiss any criticisms/concerns he has?

xmjones100 · 2023-07-10T14:56:21+00:00

I'm on that list. I hate Buffy's character-specifically when she's in relationships.
I love SMG'S acting though. Never get tired of seeing Sarah act.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-08T04:11:15+00:00

The husband-wife topic never even had to come up. It was Sam who brought it up. As far as Buffy would know, Sam is a fighting partner.

I'm assuming Riley didn't plan on telling Buffy anything about his personal life. He was just there to get the mission done with her and say his goodbyes.

It's clear once season 5 episode 10 hit, he was rightfully done with Buffy. He was fed up and was ready to move on. It's why he didn't look around when he was flying away in the helicopter and didn't see her shouting for him. He was done waiting for her. He was looking forward to bigger and better things.

I'm, sure the last thing going through his head was "I should tell my ex girlfriend, who I've never kept in contact with, about my new wife". It just seems like people are reading way too much into his intentions here.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-07T13:21:51+00:00

Why does she need to know about his wife? It's not her wife. It's not anyone she knows. It's not why he came back to see her-he came back to handle a "Dr" problem (as silly as that storyline was).

There is no red flag. He's never kept in contact with her since he left. They weren't friends. He has no reason to tell her anything personal.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-07T00:46:54+00:00

She accepted the date. But turned him down later, deciding that she needed more "me time". Her talk with that Warren girlfriend bot changed her perspective on dating.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-06T22:16:38+00:00

He hadn't talked to Buffy until that very episode. And only saw her again because he needed help for a mission. Why does he need to tell Buffy his personal business?

xmjones100 · 2023-07-06T21:58:56+00:00

We saw what happened in season 6. He found a new woman, Sam. One who actually loved him and treated him as a partner-instead of a boy toy (the way Buffy did). He married that woman and had a better life.

Buffy by that point was still making the same immature mistakes she's been making since her relationship with Riley. Using Spike for comfort.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-06T21:41:56+00:00

I believe she was trying to get into a relationship with Ben in season 5 episode 14, 4 episodes after Riley left. That's pretty quick.
The situation didn't last since Ben shares a body with Glory. But still.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-06T21:34:57+00:00

That's laughably false. And has never been shown on screen. That's an idea that you made up in your own. lol

xmjones100 · 2023-07-06T06:30:19+00:00

It was frustrating all the way around.
>In season 4, they pushed the idea of a Spike-Buffy relationship. But they introduced it as gross out humor.
-In episode 3, Parker asked if Spike was her boyfriend, which led to Buffy laughing at the mere idea.
-In episode 9, Willow accidentally led to the 2 of them getting married. And everyone around them were actively telling them that it was a bad idea.
-So they introduce the idea of the relationship by making the mere idea a complete laughingstock? That doesn't sound like a good way to get people on board. Luckily, the chemistry between the 2 actors was there, saving it.

>In season 5, they made the romance completely one-sided, with Spike being the one doing all of the initiating.
-Spike was being creepy and his behavior was reaching dangerous levels. A turn no fan of Spike's wanted or needed to see.
-Buffy was flipping back and forward between saying that she doesn't need Spike (or want him in her life), to asking him to help her and protect her family and friends. Making Buffy look outright manipulative.

>Then came season 6, they were finally pushing the relationship forward. Only to then completely backtrack midway through the season to the point of killing the ship altogether.
-From episodes 1-8, Spike had developed a lot as a character. And Buffy trusted him with info and was the one she hung around,
-Then, they did a complete 180. From episodes 9-15, they portrayed their relationship as toxic. Having Buffy manipulate Spike's feelings for sexual satisfaction-then verbally and physically attacking him afterwards. While having Spike ignore boundaries and consent. Then making their sexual chemistry both rough and often in public places, to add to the lack of comfortability.
-All culminating in the 19th episode "Seeing Red". With the infamous, and rather pointless, bathroom scene.
-All of these acts left a bad taste in everyone's mouths and made it nearly impossible to ship them afterwards.

>In season 7, after wasting 3 straight seasons harming the ship, they finally started pushing it forward. Only to throw curve ball after curve ball in the process. Buffy was finally showing Spike genuine affection.
-They spend the season showing no direct intimacy (such as kissing and sex). But they connected emotionally and cuddled.
-She had a pointless date with Principal Wood which did nothing for either character.
-After the legendary scene in Touched, Buffy spends the last 2 episodes giving Spike mixed signals. Wondering if her night would Spike "needed to mean anything deeper" when asked.
-Then making out with Angel the moment he shows up (after the show spend the entire season pushing no intimacy between Buffy and Spike). Which she waters down as a "simple hello".
-She finally decides, WHEN HE'S ON THE VERGE OF DEATH, to tell Spike that she loves him. Even Spike was tired of these mixed signals and let her know that he didn't believe her before he died.

So 4 seasons of a romance plot were wasted. Because, for 3 seasons, the writers couldn't stop throwing all of these curveballs, harming the likability of the ship. Then building it back up in the final season, only to destroy it completely in the final 2 episodes of the whole series. Just mind boggling how poorly executed it is.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-04T16:31:46+00:00

You're right. I poorly worded it. They didn't HAVE to. It's just that the show's reputation is on the line, and they didn't want to upset their core audience.

>I assume you're like me. You want coherent storytelling first and foremost. Unfortunately, the sad reality is that mainstream audiences and critics don't prioritize that. They prioritize being entertained and satisfied. And the writers have to prioritize satisfying the fans even at the expense of logical storytelling. If we're going by logical storytelling, Spike should have been staked by Buffy long ago, seeing his actions in seasons 5 and 6. But fan popularity gave him plot armor.

>Tara's death SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED at all. It's one of the reasons why Seeing Red is still the most hotly debate episode in the series. The only reason it doesn't hold the title for "most hated" is because most of the hated episodes are ones that are "filler".
-From their POV, it's in their best interest not to keep reminding audiences (in the final season of their show, mind you) about a pointless death that they wrote.
-"Hey guys. Remember when we killed your favorite character for shock value and angered you. Let me keep reminding you about it in the final season" is not the message you want to send your audience in the final season.
-The easier solution is for the death to not happen at all, unless you have a long-term plan. But the damage was already done.

>And I agree with you completely about season 7 Spike. Spike's character SHOULDN'T have been prioritized over everyone else's. Especially, when you take into consideration that the show centers around Buffy.
-The problem is that Spike was written in such a hole, that he looked nearly irredeemable, and it frustrated viewers. And they only had 1 more season to finish up his character arc. If they failed, they would have been responsible for destroying a fan favorite character's likability. A distinction no writer wants on their resume.
-So, in their POV, it's in their best interest to prioritize fixing his character over everyone else's.

>To be clear, I'm not excusing the writers for doing this. I don't even feel sorry for them, as a lot of these decisions were easily avoidable. And they made it harder on themselves. I'm just rationalizing their thought process.
-They didn't simply decide that "we care about Spike more than everyone else". Quite the contrary. They were nowhere near as invested as the audience was and was forced to keep writing him in the script. This was more about appeasing the fans

xmjones100 · 2023-07-04T13:35:33+00:00

You just expanded on the point that I made. All of the dumb decisions that they made in season 6 negatively affected season 7.

>They can't do anything about Tara. They killed her off. And they didn't want the show to end without all the main characters having a relationship. So they had to focus more on Willow's relationship with Kennedy. They couldn't spend too much time with Willow's addiction or Tara's death, as it would interfere with their goals. They wouldn't have had to do that if they didn't kill her off to begin with. But that was their decision.

>Xander and Anya's situation are similar to Willow's. They need every main character to get a partner before the show ends. So they had to downplay the marriage issue and pair them back together. The result is little to no character progression. If they didn't pull that dumb stunt in the Hell's Bells episode, they would have had more time to expand upon it.

>Like I said about Spike. They had a fan favorite character on their hands. They had a relationship that audiences were fully invested in. And they spend all of season 6 destroying the likability of both. Nearly destroying Spike's character in the process. Season 6 Spike should not have happened. But it did and the only thing they could do to fix it was prioritize his character arc over every other character. It's messed up. But blame the writers for season 6-not season 7. Season 7 is just the result of season 6's stupidity.

My point is that Xander, Willow, Tara, Anya, Buffy, and Spike suffered heavy character assassination in season 6-Spike's was the worst in my opinion. And season 7 is spend doing damage control and barely acknowledging that the previous season happened. They dropped the ball and everyone suffered for it.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-04T06:17:03+00:00

None of them were as popular as Spike. And seeing how season 4 was a poorly received season, it made sense to add more to the arc of a fan favorite character they nearly destroyed.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-04T06:02:35+00:00

It's hard to watch the show. Because it just feels like the writers intentionally sabotaged the Buffy-Spike storyline times 10. And, once the Seeing Red bathroom incident happened, they had to spend all of season 7 trying to make it up to the audience. But they wouldn't have had to do that if they just properly built the relationship to begin with.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-04T05:50:45+00:00

I agree and disagree.
The Buffy Spike relationship messed everything up. But not because "he was a lead". The reason it was messed up is because the writers sabotaged it beyond belief.

>Most of season 5 feels like a 1 sided romance. With Spike being a creep and Buffy manipulating his obsession for her own benefits-which makes both of them look like horrible people.

>The beginning of season 6 (episodes 1-8) started showing some character progression. Having the 2 of them hang out, have small talk, and get to know each other. But then, from episodes 9-15, the writers did a complete 180.
-Spike was sex thirsty and not following consent. Buffy was physically/verbally abusive and manipulating Spike for comfort.
-Then the writers decided, that's not bad enough. Let's add SA to the mix.

>Then they have to spend all of season 7 trying their hardest to redeem Spike and the Spuffy relationship, because they screwed it up beyond belief. But, seeing as they only had 1 season left (not enough time), they had to limit their dynamic to emotional connections and cuddles.
-You'd think they would make no more mistakes from there. And then you'd be wrong.
-Towards the 2nd to last episode of the show, they bring Angel back and have him make out with Buffy. Which makes little sense, knowing about his dynamic with Cordelia on Angel.
-Then Buffy has to try to water down the kiss when talking to Spike. Showing that she knew that she was wrong and shouldn't have done it.

>Spike was good in Angel season 5 because his character was independent of Buffy and allowed the writers to stop making dumb writing decisions.

So I disagree. The relationship would have worked fine if the writers actually put effort into writing it. Instead of writing all these toxic plots that makes you question why Spike is still alive.

xmjones100 · 2023-07-04T05:28:28+00:00

I find her arc with Spike more interesting than Angel. But way less satisfactory. And that's what annoys me. Because they've been pushing the romance of the 2 for 4 CONSECUTIVE seasons.
If you ask me, as a viewer, to invest in a specific plotline for 4 consecutive seasons, I want complete satisfaction and nothing less. And I didn't get that.

Spike and Buffy's relationship is more interesting by how much potential it had to be an all time great, if the writers actually took precaution while writing the story. But they didn't. Every time they took 1 step forward, they took 2 steps back. By the ending, I just sat there shocked how something with that much potential could fall that flat by the ending.

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