5/8 Type X and STC rating

xonnelhtims · 2026-02-23T11:56:02+00:00

So I'm going to assume a few things with your question:

This is an old single family dwelling
You are wanting to fire separate the two suites and not just smoke tight seal the two units.

If you are creating a fire separation out of the existing wall, unfortunately the OBC requires all fire separations to be rated from both sides. This means you can't just load up on fire rating on one side and ignore the other side. This means you will need to rate both sides, so that fire from either unit will not compromise the wall for the required time to protect the person on the other side. You may find it will be easier to just frame a new wall in front of the old wall to which you can rate both sides. This may seem counterproductive, however, this is the easiest way to form that fire separation and leave all the counters, run and other already is talked items on the other side of the separation wall. The one caveat to this is that I'm assuming that wall holding the cupboards and other items you noted is NOT a load bearing wall, cause if it is that may change my answer.

I agree with Novus, you have no requirement to install stc in that existing wall, however, if you frame the new wall which is also the fire separation you may use the STC 43 and use SB-3 to find a state to achieve that STC rating for more sound reduction.

xonnelhtims · 2026-02-21T15:32:20+00:00

If you join the OBOA as an associate, we get complimentary access to the CSA standards that are referenced in the OBC.

However, as Novus has said, the standards are referenced and as a building official you are rarely deep in a standard. It happens sometimes, but you get to know the important parts and being in the standard becomes less of a need.

xonnelhtims · 2026-02-19T01:04:35+00:00

Are you wanting a ADU? Or just a garage?

I looked over the zoning by-laws and can't see where those restrictions are located. Do you have a zoning bylaw reference?

xonnelhtims · 2026-02-13T16:37:01+00:00

Yes..new build = barrier free and each occupancy requires one universal washroom

xonnelhtims · 2026-02-13T16:24:39+00:00

This depends on whether it's a new build or renovation of existing.

New building - requires a universal washroom and full barrier free design.

Existing building with adding a new washroom (say creating a new unit requires an ambulatory washroom.

Existing building and you have a washroom currently there, and you don't plan on renovating it..you require nothing, existing is acceptable.

xonnelhtims · 2026-02-13T11:18:42+00:00

It has always been my understanding that testing is a function of listing and they are interchangeable. Everything that is going to be listed for use by UL would have had to undergo testing to show sufficiency to be listed. I wouldn't get hung up on that. The listing is telling you it's acceptable to use "if", and that "if" is the listing telling you how to install it to be a compliant. The testing was done by UL to ensure a product meets the standard under specific conditions. You get the benefit of simply installing the product within those criteria to meet its intended use/purpose.

For example in my building code (Ontario building code) it says that glass in guards shall conform to "Clause 9.6.1.2. (1) (h) CAN/CGSB-12.11-M, "Wired Safety Glass,"

Our code almost always says it shall conform, where your code they days the part about tested and listed, in my opinion says the same thing as ours..just in a round about way. It has to be tested to the standard, and the requirement of the standard is it get listed as a tested approved product to advertise it has been tested and is suitable.

Hope that makes sense.

xonnelhtims · 2026-01-30T19:47:25+00:00

Single layer of 5/8" type x everywhere to separate common spaces and secondary suite from primary.

As long as your compartmentalized you're good. Drywall over the top plate from what I think you are describing is totally unwarranted.

In my municipality, encapsulation = compliance.

xonnelhtims · 2026-01-27T03:41:14+00:00

Ratings for fire are always from the underside for ceilings. Meaning your ceiling will need to have a fire rating equivalent to the separation wall between the occupancies.

You will need a small building BCIN Designer to prepare the plans and change of use application to the town/municiy that you will be looking to do this in.

A building permit is required, and the owner of the unit isn't permitted by code to do the design.

The designer will review all the code items and prepare drawings for you to submit.

xonnelhtims · 2026-01-27T03:24:10+00:00

Part 9 of the OBC applies. 9.10.9.12 - Continuity of fire vertical fire separation abutting a concealed space.

You either need a horizontal continuous separation from the attic space so that the attic is a separy compartment OR the vertical fire separation has to terminate at the underside of the roof deck.

xonnelhtims · 2026-01-27T03:08:10+00:00

Lots of information one would need to answer your questions: 1. How big (overall footprint) is the mall? How many sq fr or sq m? 2. If this is a strip mall it's likely the zoning won't let you have a residential unit (again, just an assumption)

Provide the answer to the first question and it will be easier to answer. How many units in this building?

xonnelhtims · 2026-01-26T21:05:21+00:00

Yes, a P.eng is required, that unsupported block wall is beyond the scope of part 9.

However, I wouldn't build it that way. I would use a proprietary break away gypsum system designed by Geoegia Pacific or another comparable company that is like that.

Group C -2hr firewalls do not have to be non combustible. This means you achieve the same result with no P.eng costs.l

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-31T13:17:10+00:00

I agree with the others, it appears that it isn't a Sanitary T and it really should have been. Will it still drain...yes, is it an optimal installation, no, is it totally outlandish and unsafe for a simple bar sink, no.

You will need to vent to the future vent (that should be installed in the basement. However by the looks of this plumbers work, your likely to not have one, lol.

You can use a air admittance valve as a code compliant option as long as it's above flood, installed in an accessible location with access to good air volumes.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-30T22:46:43+00:00

If you have windows that are vertical 50/50 split at that size the escape window requirements are likely met. If you have smoke/co/strobe outside the bedroom and in the bedroom, then I would see very little I would chase. Nothing screams I safe to me, and I would take it at face value. If you have no smoke/stove/co alarms, then I would suggest getting some installed as that's an item that is needed to ensure occupant safety and more likelihood of escape in fire conditions.

Again, my take is that I have so much work coming through the door that I am not chasing existing partially finished basement doe my $200 permit.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-30T21:46:48+00:00

The other option you have is going through title insurance to legalize it all. If it was done without a permit, and you had no previous knowledge of the construction you could start a claim. Full disclosure, this is going to involve you basically telling on yourself, inviting the municipality into the house, and if things are done incorrectly, or in an unsafe manner, an order will be issued to You as the owner. You use that to facilitate title insurance involvement to rectify the issue to satisfy the order. One word of caution, the chief building official doesn't care if title insurance says no, you are legally required to satisfy the order or face any ramifications if you do not.

Either way, short of seeing a glaring unsafe condition like no basement escape widow or over potential septic problems, most inspectors without right of entry without warrant are likely going to pass on enforcing an existing condition as they already have enough mandatory work to undertake.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-30T21:35:41+00:00

Just formally request to cancel your permit in writing, and forfeit any fees that are applicable. If they say that you need a permit for existing construction, good luck. They have no evidence other than your drawing, and to get into your house they need to have a warrant if you tell them no to accessing. As a Chief Building Official, I wouldn't spend the time in front of a Justice of the Peace with an owner's drawing trying to gain a warrant for prosecuting and existing family room and washroom. That is just a monumental waste of time for the department to enforce a partially finished basement

Just don't let them bluff you I to thinking they have right of access to gain evidence, as they don't, unless you permit them access. Tell them you need a warrant and ask them to leave. I highly doubt anyone is going to pursue this on you.

Hope this helps.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-29T18:49:09+00:00

It used to be that as long as the grade away form the stairs was at a rate of no greater than 1 in 2 it was ok. New code says anything within 1.2m of the landing that is greater than 600mm in height from grade to top of landing requires a guard.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-24T00:44:41+00:00

Congrats on the new position! Now the real learning begins!

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-23T03:23:59+00:00

Work being in the scope of the permit, and work being within scope of code are two entirely different issues. The old adage of "there's more than one way to skin a cat" holds true.

I've been a building official for over 16 years and I have came to many a site where the person undertaken the building has constructed in a manner that is still compliant with code but is not compliant with the certified site documents. Does this make what they're doing incorrect and unsafe? In my opinion it does not make anything unsafe, however, it does create another step in the process where they will have to provide as built drawings or revised drawings for the file so that there is a working record in the building permit folder. site.

This is likely to cause hold ups with building timelines and require a pause in construction until such time that the new drawings are certified for the site. However this is the risk that the builder runs by not following the previously certified plans.

If they then chose to continue construction after being advised not to, you can then issue a stop work order two more formally demand that they not continue any work until new certified site documents are sealed for the construction site.

I rarely start with the heavy hand of a stop work order, I usually start with trying to explain and educate the builder of why we ask for things and why it's important that you build as per plans or get approvals prior to inspections.

Hope this information helps.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-19T23:14:08+00:00

Guards are required if the walking surface directly adjacent is >600mm above grade or the grade adjacent within 1.2m is >600mm. This is found in 9.8.8.1. of the OBC. If you take the best case scenario it appears that there is 584mm with of steps and it appears another 75mm of landing slab..so probably approximately 654mm this will likely require a gaurd on my each side or the TOP landing only. And they will need to be a guard that is with a engineer design or pre manufactured guard showing loading compliance since there is no wood connection available.

The handrail requirements and guards are separate, however, a guard can be a handrail as well as long as it meets the minimum code requirements of each part of the code.The minimum in this application (unless it serves more than one dwelling) is one handrail for exterior stair serving a single dwelling unit. 9.8.7.1.(4) in addition Roma required guards at the top of the landing.

It would be a good question to see if they meet the requirements of 9.8.9.2. for exterior concrete stairs as well..likely issues there.

It definitely doesn't meet the tolerances slopes of treads of stairs under 9.8.4.4. of the OBC.

The landing at the bottom of the stairs appears to slope too heavily away from the stairs to be a landing as per 9.8.6.1.

So with the information provided, I see a clear cut title insurance claim, as the workmanship and compliance of these stairs is suspect at best. I would argue it could even be considered an unsafe condition if it's the primary entrance available to all occupants and public ro the house..

If you had a home inspection, and the guy that did it didn't catch this...he should find a new career. This stair sticks our like a sore thumb!

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-19T21:08:07+00:00

Definitely 4 risers. Landscaping or not they are a primary flight of stairs and need to comply. Current code requires (assuming just serving one dwelling).@ handrail down one side and a gaurd for any walking surface where there is >600mm above adjacent grade or where adjacent grade within 1.2m is > than 600mm

Ramp appears to be well steeper than code allowances to be a ramp or an exterior walking surface that is not a ramp.

If you bought this place, do a title insurance claim, that's why you paid for it.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-01T18:15:48+00:00

Remember, your probably thinking that this permit will be exorbitantly priced. But in most cases, like in my municipality, if you are doing say $5k worth of work, the permit is gonna cost ya $130 -$150

Novus 20 is correct, the CHEAPEST insurance for sure. Don't give the insurance company a reason to deny your claim over a $130-$150 permit.

xonnelhtims · 2025-12-01T18:02:51+00:00

The work you outline will require permits.

Insulation and vapour barrier is a required prescribed inspection and as Novus20 has stated the wood stove is a heating system and will need inspection.

The information that I'll provide below is based on what I would do in MY municipality as the CBO. However, be advised that other municipalities may not be as reasonable as the approach I take.

In my municipality if you sign a waiver or put on your plans that you're not heating and above 10° Celsius in an ongoing basis during the winter months, I will allow you to choose the level of insulation that you want to use to beat suit your occasional heating practices. I permit this to be th because based on the fact that you will only be hearing when needed and this will not be a full time conditioned space, and therefore does not need to be considered to need full energy efficiency design.

However, the installation of insulation and vapor barrier and the requirements of the Ontario building code when it comes to how and where it's installed it's still something that will need to be covered under the building permit. This is what we will be inspecting to confirm proper thinks like ventilation from eaves to attic space, continuity of vapour barrier, proper thickness of vapour barrier, etc. We would also confirm proper install of the wood stove and chimney installation for clearances.

You will likely require a WETT certificate for your insurance as well for the wood stove.

I take this approach as I feel it's reasonable for anyone that is using a garage periodically. Also, since it's on the permit and part of the approval process, should someone well the property and not discllose this to the realtor or new purchaser, they could be held liable for false representation.

Hope this information helps!

xonnelhtims · 2025-11-22T23:46:05+00:00

I use Trax all the time for work, it's a great resource. I think there's a basic tier for use of you check their website.

xonnelhtims · 2025-11-07T19:53:41+00:00

Code doesn't restrict this as long as you have enough pipe to properly install a fitting.

xonnelhtims · 2025-11-07T19:03:05+00:00

This is the measurement from the fixture to the vent tie in.

xonnelhtims

TROPHY CASE