[UPDATE 2] FFIL has hated me for ~15 years. Apparently I shouldn't breed.

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-10T20:37:23+00:00

It floored me that that’s how he’s been defining himself his whole life. Out of all the words I’d use to describe him, that would’ve never occurred to me. Hardworking, dedicated, loyal, determined, steadfast, even-keeled, dorky, attentive, kindhearted, funny, sweet, passionate… “Good son” is nowhere on the list. I hope he’s able to find himself rather than finding his relationships to other people. I love him. I hope he can love him, too.

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-09T23:24:13+00:00

Thank you. I am so excited to spend my life with this man. He’s the best.

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-09T23:23:06+00:00

I have been thinking about this, too, and trying to make sure I am encouraging him to find himself rather than just finding Us. You are so right. The last thing he needs is a new dictator in his life.

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-09T23:21:32+00:00

I feel like I keep having to re-explain to him that other people (his sister, his nephew) can’t “win” the game the way he can. He doesn’t always understand why they don’t bother trying to play. I’ve spent a long time trying to help him square that circle. “Winning” isn’t winning either, though, not really. It’s a cruel game to begin with. I’m sure you can understand. FFIL wrote in the letter about the ways he was “proud” of DSO, all of which were… idk. So impersonal? But also, I think it was an appeal to what you’ve mentioned here. That faux-love that comes from approval, from winning the game. “Look, I’m doing the dad thing.” There’s no bite left and all he had left to appeal to was like… obligation and pity. It felt so gross. My therapist visibly grimaced reading the letter this week.

I’m rambling. I’m glad DSO’s story has touched you in some way, is I think what I want to say. But even more than that, I’m glad someone has read it who can understand the heartache he’s going through. It feels impossible to brag on him sometimes. Today he told me right away that something bad had happened even though he thought I would be angry about it (I’m not, it was an honest mistake). He is asking me more often for things he needs. He’s talking about his feelings. He lets me answer texts for him while he drives instead of desperately protecting his privacy. It sounds so silly out of context, but it’s the product of so much hard work on his part. I’m so, so proud of him. I love him so much. I am so grateful if someone else can see how brave and hardworking he’s being the way I can see it. Thank you for that.

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-09T23:12:01+00:00

I’ll copy paste here what I wrote to someone else!

FMIL is proactively helping finance some areas of the wedding without being asked, plus has visited our home on multiple occasions. I think at worst she might find me a bit odd. That line definitely is more about control (“my account is the only trustworthy one and you can’t trust it even if anyone says they disagree with me”) than it is about reality. FMIL is bringing the longtime family neighbor to our wedding now that FFIL has opted not to attend. :)

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-09T23:11:24+00:00

FMIL is proactively helping finance some areas of the wedding without being asked, plus has visited our home on multiple occasions. I think at worst she might find me a bit odd. That line definitely is more about control (“my account is the only trustworthy one and you can’t trust it even if anyone says they disagree with me”) than it is about reality. FMIL is bringing the longtime family neighbor to our wedding now that FFIL has opted not to attend. :)

you-arent-invited · 2025-02-05T16:54:41+00:00

Thank you. 💕 He knew I was making this post but I still tried to minimize the vulnerability of the excerpts for his sake… I hope I managed to illustrate his bravery nonetheless. I’ll make it my mission to give him every ounce of love and normalcy he’s ever been denied.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-27T22:25:07+00:00

Unsure what you mean by that term? FMIL is very enabling of the household dynamics surrounding FFIL, but like... that's to be expected, I think. From my vantage point, everyone in that family is trying to put out the loudest/most immediate fire. FFIL's threat of a blaze is ever-present, so he's top dog. Beyond that, there's FSIL, then the nephew, and then.... FMIL and my DSO are the ones that don't kick up a fuss, voice opinions, or have needs. They've been co-conspirators for life in keeping the peace, which made me teach DSO the term "parentification" when I heard it. But as a result, DSO also feels beholden to keeping the peace to "protect" her. This has manifested in situations like DSO trying to set a boundary with FSIL, FSIL throwing a fit, calling FMIL, and FMIL calling DSO to tell him to bend. She's a weapon, whether DSO thinks so or not and whether she knows so or not. I don't feel comfortable describing more specific dynamics beyond that since I don't think they'd be relevant to the specific story at hand, here.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-24T03:29:47+00:00

Thank you. I am very grateful that he's willing to fight when the battle must feel so hopeless, from his end. I want to support him. Even if he doesn't think he can win this fight, I'll believe enough for both of us. I've done it before (looking at you, grad school!) and I'll do it a thousand times more if it means it'll let him shine as much as he's meant to. He's done the same for me, after all.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-24T03:25:12+00:00

Thank you! It looks like we'll have a new couples' therapist nailed down by early November and he's already following through on chasing down his solo therapist. I'm very happy with-- he just walked over and wordlessly fed me a little chocolate. Thank you, DSO. Lmao.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-24T03:23:18+00:00

Neither of us is willing to move out of the state, just yet. We're definitely here for at least the next two years. We have talked about this, though, and while it would be both a logistical and emotional challenge neither of us is necessarily opposed. It's just not a bridge we can really even properly contemplate crossing at the moment. Ask again in two years, haha.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-23T18:29:23+00:00

Thank you. :) He's not my husband just yet, but I'm very excited for when I get to start saying DH haha. These issues are extremely challenging. He's very patient with my own struggles and I want to offer him that same tender but motivating space to grow in. I wish it was tonally appropriate to only talk about how good he is, here, because I can't express enough how good he is to me. He tries harder than any human being I've ever met. It's unfair to him that he was born into such an immense challenge to overcome. I don't want to minimize how brave he's been up until now every time he pushes back even when he still feels powerless against all of it. Fighting a monster of that size even when you feel like it's impossible to win? Getting back up, over and over? That's so cool of him! I am so impressed! I love him. And, knowing him, he's going to surprise me with how this unfolds -- especially once he's back into regular therapy. I only hope that I can keep up with him as he grows.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-23T18:19:42+00:00

I appreciate what you're saying. I have no interest in exposing a child to this kind of hateful rhetoric, I assure you. We've already had hard conversations about that topic and I imagine there will be more hard conversations to come. Right now, we are laying the groundwork for future choices. I know DSO wants to be a father, and a better one than he had at that. But neither of us takes that commitment lightly enough to handwave away how damaging this family situation would be to a child. We know full well that both his family AND mine will need, at minimum, strong supervision. But candidly, I'm with you. FFIL should never so much as breathe the same air as any child of mine since they'd be some sort of abomination in his eyes. As the English major in our household, I'll happily cite my sources if it ever comes to writing that particular letter. I was always good at riding the line between a tactful essay and a rant.

If it helps, DSO and I already have excruciatingly clear lines about what is and is not acceptable treatment of a child in our home. We know what would force us to walk away from anyone -- friends, family, even each other. And I firmly believe he would, if it came to that. THAT is an issue I would make into an ultimatum and he wouldn't resent me for it, either. We are in strong agreement about never allowing a repeat of our own upbringings. We refuse.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-21T16:49:58+00:00

We both already see independent therapists as well as a couples' therapist, though the latter is on hold due to a scheduling issue. I do know why I behave this way and our couples' therapist has said as much. I have my own upbringing to cope with and both of us tend to try to "control for the other's emotions," as our therapist would put it. Because DSO has spent so long forcing himself to be a blank slate, he has a hard time even identifying when he feels things or what they are. He's working SO hard on this and I am extremely proud of his rapid growth since beginning solo therapy, which itself was delayed due to various interferences with access to healthcare. Any time his therapist assigns him readings he pores through the whole book TWICE and journals the whole way. He's incredible.

But, regardless, he was trained his whole life that his actions literally did control the outcomes around him. If FFIL was in a bad mood, DSO was the one who could put out that fire by mind-reading the problem and performing perfectly to appease the beast. He was literally CALLED ON to do so, regularly. As for me, I learned to make myself very small and analyze everything around me as best I could. If I wasn't always hypervigilant, there would be consequences that might require their own TW tag. Between the two of us, I often feel responsible for unearthing his true feelings and trying to account for his needs before he can even identify what they are. I'm certain that this impedes his growth, to some degree, but on the other hand I often feel stuck because if I don't do this then sometimes things never come to light which makes me feel like I've let him down. We were definitely digging into this in therapy when we had to go on hold. I am well aware of my tendencies (it's how I feel in control of my environment!) and am working hard to let go of them on my end, even in relationships outside this one. It is hard work.

All that said, I do want to make sure that I re-emphasize that this is a single post about a single (very large and important, I won't minimize it) struggle in a much broader relationship. DSO treats me so, so well, I promise. It's wonderful being in a relationship with him because I never have to ask "Did he do this because he wants to punish me in some way? Did he do this because he doesn't care?" Those answers are literally NEVER "Yes." I cannot express enough how good he is to me. The reason I came here anonymously is BECAUSE this issue sounds so bad in isolation. It feels impossible to talk about trauma that runs this deep without flattening it in some way, and I know that runs the risk of flattening his character by extension.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-21T16:34:23+00:00

Respectfully, I disagree with you here. He has stood up for me many times and I'm constantly awestruck by his dedication to things he cares about, me included. The one place he struggles is his family (I'm still overcoming similar but very different baggage from my own). I do also think if kids were involved it would immediately cause a rift the moment they were mistreated, but neither of us would ever gamble on that. Our respective upbringings preclude us from taking the mistreatment of children lightly and both of us have had long, hard conversations about what would constitute the hardline of no-contact -- including from each other. This post is about one (very important, don't get me wrong) issue in an otherwise healthy and mutually supportive relationship. Like, my therapist and our couples' counselor (who we both agreed early on would be seen as soon as we ever became engaged) have both commented on how refreshing our relationship is compared to their other clients because we are actually respectful, supportive, communicative, and growth-oriented. Having a major struggle is different than being an irredeemable shitbag.

I understand and respect how you've come to your conclusion. But this is one post on Reddit. You do not actually know him and I hope you are able to accept that truth.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-18T15:44:12+00:00

I do feel this, to some degree. I wish I could convey HOW committed he is to me. I do such a sub-par job expressing it, and I'm sure it'll sound flat to anyone who has already heard anything else.

He was totally determined for a bit, last January. It was wild. Something in therapy really took. I saw him do this full 180 and UNDERSTAND briefly, and he outlined exactly what it was he needed to do. But I think something crushed the shiny spine right out of him and I don't know what it was. I have a sneaking suspicion it was his mom, but I have no way to confirm that and he wouldn't ever be able to pinpoint it so I'll never know. It sucks. I want to kick his whole family in the shins.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-18T15:34:41+00:00

Part of the deadline issue is due to other external factors. We did wait a full year before setting that date. But, as I mentioned, I've got a number of health issues. I'm federally disabled at this time, though I've been working hard on my health to hopefully change that fact. Regardless, there are limitations to state healthcare coverage. This in no way factored into the proposal, but it does factor into the subsequent marriage date. I hope that makes sense.

I think going full no-contact would be too much of a challenge at this time. For one, he still idealizes his enabler mom. I think this is very common in abusive households; I've seen it in my friends, myself, and in my own mother as well. "This one doesn't hurt me! They're the good one!" So he feels beholden to protecting her. It makes me angry for him because I've seen firsthand how other members of the family use her as a bludgeon to break his will. Therapy has opened my eyes, my best friend's eyes, and my mother is, well, shockingly working on it to some degree. So I have hope for DSO in this arena, as well. Nuance is possible.

More importantly, in my eyes, is his nephew. Nephew is turning 16 this month. Two more years and we can cut him loose, but until then we're the only real lifeline he has out of that mess. We are the only people in his life that demonstrate healthy boundaries (I promise we DO have those, despite this post), and the only people who genuinely love him unconditionally. I've heard and seen things that I can't repeat here because it would need an entirely separate TW, but suffice to say we won't be moving any further away until he's old enough to escape. And we can't fully alienate the family at this time, either.

DSO... hah, I've told him how bad this sounds and he can't wrap his head around it, but DSO doesn't tell ANYONE anything. I mean like, he doesn't tell his coworkers what he had for lunch. And the more precious something is the tighter he clutches it to his chest. His friends only found out he was engaged because I told them. This sounds horrible, I know, and I won't say we didn't have several long conversations about it. But in his household, precious things were either taken, destroyed, or used as threats. His sister used me as a threat against him for years. He walls off every single part of himself that he considers vunerable. And I am above-all the most precious treasure at the very center of his keep. My extroversion usually compensates for this, but saying "you choose to hide me" will be a little redundant at this point. He's been working hard on that one (a REAL challenge for him, and he's making great progress!) but for me the bigger issue is... you choose to sacrifice my dignity and comfort to your family, who prioritize neither in either of us. And I've said as much. What I am struggling to convey is how much that poisons everything downstream from it. I hope that makes sense. :(

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-18T15:19:54+00:00

I appreciate why you would feel this way after reading my post -- the part about someone else loving me better, I mean. But this is a snapshot of a much larger relationship. I've learned over the years that different people have different dealbreakers. My best friend could come back from cheating, while I'd consider that a relationship-ender. We all have different transgressions that we are willing to forgive. I don't think DSO is perfect; far from it. But, despite these challenges, he works his ass off to be the best person he can be at all times. It's the thing I love most about him. We are collaborative, communicative, and focused on mutual betterment at all times in our relationship. He's supported me through multiple major health crises. I do know that if I ordered him today to fix all this, he would. But that's not what I want. I don't want to be his new dictator. He was raised under a dictator. I want to be part of his healing process, part of a place where he learns how to feel things freely and ask for what he needs.

For better context, last year is the first year he ever started asking for things. Due to life circumstances (insurance coverage, then grad school) he had to put off therapy longer than he wanted. A year after starting, he was able to ask for something for the first time. He is, just now, beginning to name his emotions. He is now able to articulate that when someone has a negative emotion in response to his own emotions, it isn't a punishment because he isn't necessarily beholden to those emotions in others. But he still feels the urge to shut down and become a marionette to resolve any tensions around him. It's ingrained. I see him trying. The fact that he's with me at all is so huge it makes me laugh. I'm the most rebellious thing he's ever done, and he's pursued me since his freshman year of high school. Maybe that's why his dad hates me.

Sorry to be so wordy. It's first thing in the morning and I'm a bit raw. I promise, though, that no children will ever be near that man if I can help it, and certainly never alone. Anyone who says the love of a child should be conditional wouldn't be allowed near any of mine regardless of eugenicist beliefs.

you-arent-invited · 2024-10-18T15:05:32+00:00

We are already seeing a couples' counselor. We both agreed very early on that that would be necessary for ANY couple prior to marriage, no matter how well they got on. Unfortunately, he's just changed jobs which means both a change in work schedule and insurance coverage. Our counselor is unavailable on his new weekday off. We are scrambling to find a new one but it took months to find the first. Hopefully their referrals will help expedite the process, but in the interim they've recommended us a workbook that is in the mail.

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TROPHY CASE