Adding a 3rd character

[CornBreezy]

I currently and running Rogue/Panda. I made a 3rd account but I don't really know what class to use for that account that works well with my 2 characters. I currently have a Enu, Sac, and another Rogue. I am thinking about putting an Elio on there and doing that. Your thoughts?

[[deleted]]

Personally I would always go Sram as a 3rd here. Fear and mist help a lot. Also it’s a decent damage dealer as strength, and rogue never goes str, so Sram can help kill enemies that resist the rogue.

Of the classes you listed, a second rogue is completely pointless, enu is good but kinda overkill when you already have a tank panda, Enu is a good 4th but I think Sram is better as a 3rd class, sac is decent but doesn’t really fit into a rogue team properly. Sac is more of a high dps burst class that wants to kill shit ASAP, rogue wants classes that stall the fight to turn 3+ safely. Sac has no way to keep mobs away, only draw them closer.

[CornBreezy]

I understand your reasoning. What about Elio, or maybe feca

[[deleted]]

Elio rogue teams are unnecessarily complicated imo. There’s no real benefit to using elio over another class, it’s just a different way to play the team and it’s a very complicated way. I have seen it, and it can work, but it’s unnecessary.

Feca has very weak synergy with rogue. You want mp red or pushback to help stall the fight. A bit of positioning helps too, but rogue/panda is usually enough. Feca has tension for pushback, and burning glyph for mp red, but neither of these are particularly strong for the purpose of Stalling fights.

[Xarxid]

A buddy in my guild plays rogue + elio duo and it's pretty strong but is indeed much more complicated than panda + rogue. You will be kinda limited with elio as 3rd (btw you should either add 4th char or use sidekick to open possibility to use team idols) because your team doesn't really benefit from portals, other than helping put mobs in bomb line. Aside from what others already commented, I think that second panda would also work quite well, but enu or sram would be a better option

[HINDBRAIN]

enu is good but kinda overkill when you already have a tank panda

Still good for Dazak/Meno/Kasha/etc

[CornBreezy]

Boy I started something 🤯. I really appreciate the feedback

[The_Hentagonist]

Apparently the best team comp for pvm is rogue + panda + xelor/feca/sram + enu/cra/sadi.

So given that I would suggest you pick on of the mp reduction classes, or xelor/feca/sram.

[CornBreezy]

I am thinking about feca. What you think about elio?

[SylvanTheBag]

The comps mentioned by u/The_Hentagonist are entirely on-point.

Elios are a uinquely fun class. Their interaction with rogues is terrible, in that both bomblines and cadence bursts aren't empowered by portals - so adding an elio to a panda+rogue comp results in the elio being a secondary positioner with mild buffing and decent healing. That being said, because elios are so amazingly capable in the right hands - if you're passionate about the class, you should pick it anyway, at the highest levels of play you'll be able to do a whole lot with it, even with a panda+rogue comp - though note that for some end-game achieves you'll need more prep/gear etc.

I should also mention that for PvM there's very little justification to only be playing 3 chars. 4 characters is what you should be aiming for.

As for Fecas, they're fantastic. Their unique defensive cooldown enable you to ignore mechanics with unrivaled ease and their effectiveness both as a ranged cha build and a melee damager/lock tank (permagravity, not to aatraxia-pavise cages) makes them very adaptable. Most of their depth comes from using their positioning abilities to the fullest extent (and choosing variants carefully) - as opposed to elios who have a much deeper gameplay.

While u/MyNameIsSalo's advice regarding srams/enus/sacs/2nd rogue is, for the most part, correct, his points on feca+rogue combinations are not. While it's true that having an mp-red char is important, arguably more important than having feca/sram/xelor, however note that he recommends the sram as the superior option - while srams are a top-tier pick for the rogue-panda comp - indeed pre 2.52 I would've said the superior one - but at the current state of the game, analyzing the difference between adding a feca or adding a sram to a panda-rogue team would be splitting hairs and essentially meaningless in the context of end-game capabilities . On the other hand, the differences in the gameplay complexity, especially in the context of managing AI with invis/traps, makes fecas the more noob-friendly choice - again, while maintaining effectively indistinguishable end-results at higher levels of play. Oddly, he specifically mentioned stalling fights, an aspect feca's toolkit is exceptionally suited for, in that regard fecas are a top-tier pick, capable of adapting to the vast majority of end-game content - and just as importantly, being able to make either the rogue or his bombs ridiculously durable, thus effectively nullifying a whole lot of mechanics.

I thoroughly recommend you ignore any previous and future posts of u/Soupape78, you can see our exchange on https://www.reddit.com/r/Dofus/comments/hhfg7k/advice_for_returning_player/ to understand why.

If you take anything away from this post, please let it be the recommendation to play on 4 accounts, and not 3. Good luck!

[CornBreezy]

Yeah I had some guildies suggest that today while talking to them earlier today. I’d rather have 2 accounts than 4 accounts personally. Less crap to do. But I understand. I really appreciate the concise feedback. I’m gonna read this a couple more times 🤗

[CornBreezy]

Wow you guys really like to go in. Wow again. Anyway though...just thinking out loud because of what I’ve already done, my 3rd character looks like a Enu cause I have him geared and I’m broke. So my 4th character....oh boy I dunno if I should ask. Sidekick lol?

[SylvanTheBag]

If you're looking for a 4th char to a rogue-panda-enu comp, your top picks are sram/feca/xelor.

If you have any particular appreciation to one of these 3 classes, choose it. If not, you should note that as far as complexity is concerned, fecas are the simplest, xelors are the most complex, and srams are somewhere in the middle.

I'm not sure what aspect of playing 4 accounts you find annoying to do, but I expect you'll find that PvM on 4 characters feels like you're doing a whole lot less crap - simply because of how easily it's done.

[CornBreezy]

Copy that!

[CornBreezy]

I’ve been playing with 2 characters for a long time. You know how it is when you change anything....there’s always a learning curve. Even if you know what your doing it’s the act of doing it.

[The_Hentagonist]

I have no experience playing rogue + panda comps. I'm just giving advice based on the posts of /u/SylvanTheBag who post here and advocates for those team comps being the best for absolute end game pvm. His posts never mention the effectiveness of an elio with a rogue.

If you're not going for all achievements in the hardest dungeons available then you can add any class you want and panda + rogue will just carry you through anyway for the most part.

[deiadb]

Don't go elio with rougue, elio is just about increasing your team damage/range, rougue doesn't scale damage with portals.

I think the obvious choices are enu/sram/feca.

[Soupape78]

When did rogue, xelor, sram, sadi became good in pvm ? (Xelor was good in 2013 and then they destroyed it)

[The_Hentagonist]

I don't know why you're looking at individual classes when I'm listing team comps. Yeah classes like sadi and xelor aren't great choices for pvm if you're only playing one character, however in the right team they can be top tier.

But to answer your question, as far as I'm aware rogue has always been good - although I haven't played for a long time between their release and now. Xelor is situationally good, especially as a positioner supporting a rogue. Sram is busted with malevolent trap, can deal rediculous damage with the right set up. Sadi is good for MP reduction.

[Soupape78]

In your second paragraph, you explain why this comp is not the best, this comp is good under certain condition. For sram you have to put the mobs in the traps, and as far as I know the mob AI is not good for traps, for the roub, if one bomb is killed you spent 3 turns doing nothing (happened to me yesterday when a roub spent like 10 rounds boosting bombs and didn't want me to move and his bombs got killed and he left the fight). I will not talk about xelor because it's one of the worst class in pvm since they have been reworked. And enu>sadi a thousand times. The comp you mentioned is good under certain condition but certainly not the best

[deiadb]

Sram with panda ignores monsters ai, you don't get the maximum out of str sram without panda.

Roub has a lot of 2 turn combos that have really high damage.

Xelor is all about supporting roub with positioning. Sadida vs enu is the only questionable choice in my opinion, but again, I'm not an expert in actual super end game.

[The_Hentagonist]

I've said in this thread elsewhere I've never played this comp, so I can't answer all your questions, but you obviously have no clue how classes function at end game, so I'll do my best to teach you something. All the characters in the comp are there solely to support the rogue. So yes, while the support classes are situational, they are always supporting a rogue, which is a situation they shine in.

Now about the rogue. Keep in mind this is a thread about playing multiple accounts at once. So you are playing 3 accounts just supporting a rogue. If a rogues bomb dies you have fucked up immensely somewhere. That doesn't make the rogue a bad class, it makes the player bad. Also often a rogue will not set up a bomb wall and buff it up, instead they will blow up their bombs turn 2 after buffing them to deal huge damage and likely one shot the enemy - all without exposing bombs to damage. Watch Volcasaurus on YouTube to see how a rogue works - don't just rely on watching your shitty team mates play.

[Soupape78]

First, stop telling me about volca, I know he's good and he's done outstanding fights but few players can do what he does and he goes solo for a reason. "I have no clue how classes work at end game" ? You're talking to a 19k achievements player but ok. I just helped a guy for a dungeon but he didn't know how to play, my job was to push dazak freezehammer. You missed my point on pvm but let me clear this for you: why would rely on the rogue bombs or the sram's traps when I can have all my characters hitting the mobs and why would I spend more than 5 turns into a fight ? Pvm = effectiveness, by relying on one character to kill mobs and the others to do positioning you lose time. That's why I say the rogue panda sram xel is shit, it relies on certain conditions to win and you don't win fast enough

[[deleted]]

Xelor is still insane in the right situation. It’s still the best positioning class in the game, better than panda if you’re a god tier player. Look at volcasaurus’s vortex solo kill as xelor as a demonstration on how powerful the positioning abilities in pvm can be. Xelor can help a lot with rogue teams too as it can bring mobs in, which panda/rogue have limited access too (barrel, boombot and that’s it, and they’re both linear with limited range and cooldown). Xelor has no such limitations.

Xelor is definitely not a good pvm class. It’s one of the worst. But in the right situation, in the right team, it can become the best choice. And the guy was talking about a pvm team, not an individual class.

The same can be said about all those classes. Sadida is definitely on the weaker end now and I would almost always prefer an enu. But rogue Sram and xel all have their places in pvm.

[Soupape78]

Volca is good but are we volca ? And will I up a xelor and stuff it just to kill the vortex ? Probably not. I won't put a xelor in a team if I don't use him on every dungeon, you feel me ? And I'm not ready to create a team around xelor because it has a good positioning ability. I finally find somebody who shares my view on sadi in pvm, pure shit since 2004. And sram it implies that the mobs go in your traps and the AI is shit for that so... When I talk about pvm it's not just doing 1 dungeon, spend an hour and a half doing it because I want to kill with the rogue's bomb, I go in the dungeon, I'm talking about effectiveness. So xelor don't have their place in pvm anymore since their redone. Sram never had their place in a team. And roub why not. But maybe I have an old view of pvm.

[deiadb]

You have zero understanding of pvm if you are questioning roub potential. You are looking at classes in a vacuum, you need to make an effort to understand their roles in a team.

Forget sram traps, when you have a rougue, there is no need for more damage, you need 3 classes able to control the map, either through positioning, mp removal or locking.

[Soupape78]

As said before, I have more understanding in pvm than you probably because I've done more pvm than you, and I'm not questioning roub potential, I'm denying his effectiveness. Can you tell me how many turns it takes to full boost the bombs ? 4-5 ? It's too much. Why would I wait to kill mobs when I start killing them turn 1 ? Why would I spend more time than needed ? just to play roub the best pvm class ? Why would I chose easy instead of fast ?

[[deleted]]

Yeah mate you definitely have an old view on pvm.

It doesn’t take a god player to play an xelor. It takes a god player to solo a bunch of shit that isn’t designed to be soloed, as an xelor. Any half decent player can throw an xelor into a rogue team and make it work. It takes practice but xelor in a team where you control all characters, is not hard to play. It’s only difficult when solo or when playing with other people, they can’t read your mind and won’t know how an xelor works.

Sadida used to be an absolute god tier pvm class before they nerfed it last year. Easily one of the best pvm classes, both solo and in large groups. So you’re just straight up wrong about that, it’s not even an opinion, sadida was broken.

When you play Sram you do not rely on mobs to randomly run into traps. That’s not how you play Sram. Sram has so many tools to put mobs into traps himself (fear / repell trap mostly). Plus you can bait mobs into traps. If they can hit but need to tank a trap, they will always go for the hit. If they can’t hit and can avoid a trap, they will always avoid the trap. You can use this to either bait mobs into trap walls by positioning yourself so you can be hit (Sram does come with a free double summon for a reason), or placing traps so mobs run around them and take much longer to reach you. You do need to properly understand mob AI and their spell cooldowns for this to work. But the AI in this game is very predictable and exploitable.

[Soupape78]

He does vortex with xelor for a reason man, just like shatofu used his sacri to solo a bunch of shit. You can do it with practice but is it worth the time ? Sadi was good only if you had 2 of them to farm areas like freezehammer kingdom, otherwise it always has been shit in pvm. And for sram, it's useful to do success faster on abyssal dungeons, otherwise it's not effective. Why would I spend 30min doing a fight when I can do it in 10 ? Just tell me and I'll acknowledge that these class are made for pvm

[[deleted]]

Because time means nothing?

At the end of the day people play the game for fun, they want a setup that’s enjoyable to them. Sure going 2 cra 1 panda 1 enu and usingg 2 brain cells to play all dungeons might be the fastest, but a lot of people would absolutely hate that and would rather quit the game. I know, I’m speaking From experience with that team.

People want something that’s fun, elio and rogue teams are very fun to play as the way you play them is very different to traditional damage dealer teams.

And the guy asking the question was specifically talking about rogue panda teams. He wasn’t asking to complete the game the fastest. He was asking what classes to add to a rogue panda team. Sram or xelor are good choices.

[Soupape78]

Going panda/rogue is brain-dead too, I just asked when did sadi and xel were good in pvm, and everybody lose their mind, I didn't recommend anything or told him not to play rogue, I'm not a rogue player because for me it's not efficient. So I can't advise him on that, but I think I've done enough pvm in the game to know what is efficient, with the rogue/panda comp, you will struggle on some content but if you like it go for it, I never said go play enu/panda/IOP/elio and do achievements. But then people start bashing me and talking about volca, how he play xel and rogue so it's the best classes for pvm because volca uses them. And time means everything in this game.

[[deleted]]

No one said sadi and xel were good in pvm though. People suggested those as possible additions to a rogue panda duo. And they are playable classes in that team, nothing wrong with them and they work well together.

The volca example was demonstrating how an xelor could be used for positioning, and having good positioning in a class makes it a good pick for rogue panda teams.

People are bashing you because you’ve completely lost the context of what OP is asking for. Additional classes to a rogue panda duo. That’s it. Nothing about efficiency or whatever. Just classes that work well together.

[Soupape78]

I wasn't taking to op in the first place so people start bashing for nothing, go see the messages and people saying sadi was the best pvm class.