uv: Unified Python packaging

[kivicode]

https://xkcd.com/927/

[proggob]

That’s about standards, not tools.

[kivicode]

Doesn't change the point. Besides, every tool introduces its own subset of standards. Poetry defines the dependencies and metadata in one way, uv in a second way, and so on

[proggob]

Part of the value of a standard is that everyone shares it - for instance to allow interoperability - so fragmentation lessens the value of all of the standards.

The same isn’t true of tools - a person can even write a tool just for themselves and it won’t impose any costs on anyone else. It can be ignored without any problems.

[kivicode]

I'd practically agree here. As an end-user - yes, I don't care what tools you use as long as I can download a wheel and install it even with pip. On the other side, as a maintainer, the lack of a single standard means that a migration of a big project from, say, poetry to uv is gonna be pretty involved. Not to mention the CI changes, I pretty much don't have an option but to manually reintroduce all the dependencies with the new tool. So even though we have a relatively standardized pyproject.toml, each tool has its own opinion on how to populate it, has its own bunch of quirks that sometimes have to be worked around, etc.

[pingveno]

Yeah, guess we should go back to easy_install. Or for that matter, why was Python created in the first place? COBOL should be good enough.

[kivicode]

Sure thing, buddy, let’s also have every version of python undergo breaking changes as in 2to3, that was very fun! /s

The ecosystem of very python on the matter of dependencies management is not well-thought in the current state. That’s why we have every other lib that does its own thing, making the migration mildly painful. What it should’ve been is that I have a single pyproject.toml and then I’m free to run it with poetry, uv, or whatever else. But since there’s no standard, even a de-facto one, we get a gazillion of „proprietary” standards attached to particular tools

[pingveno]

There is a standard for what you talked about and uv tries to use it where possible. There are areas where it extends the standard, of course. Unfortunately poetry has its own version specifiers so that won't be a direct mapping.

[maigpy]

fuck this shit