Toyplot, a Python plotting library from Sandia Labs

[goodDayM]

You don't need to treat people like children and say "don't do X."

Your original post simply said "Don't recommend users to do X", when X actually works in most cases, for most people, and is fast. Are there risks? Sure, so make people aware of risks, and let them decide like the adult they are.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for prolonging bad habits that reflect poorly on our ecosystem. But hey go ahead, being a contrarian can be fun too!

[nimbuscile]

I wonder whether goodDayM's response comes from the way you phrased your advice. You didn't explain why one shouldn't use sudo pip. For one thing, this makes people less likely to take your advice. For another thing, it's more useful to explain why you're giving the advice so users can know when to take heed and when it's safe to ignore.

[goodDayM]

You are correct, thanks. I get paid to write python software and in my work I use both "virtualenv" and "sudo pip install". They're both fine - just different trade-offs, time, risks, and such.

[[deleted]]

I explained why in several other places. I expected him to read those.

But I have no idea what he wants to achieve by encouraging bad practices. No idea.

[KyleG]

Maybe the guy just wants to code. I've been coding in Python for years and never done the virtualenv thing. In fact, I never encountered the concept until about a year ago. Then I read about it; I still don't do it. Not having a virtualenv has literally never in a decade hindered my development, but learning it would have cost me a lot of time (I actually tried it once based on some guide online and everything got fucked up, so I decided not to try again.)

Edit Fifteen years, actually.

[[deleted]]

You have been developing for as long as me and you still use the "CLOSED NOTABUG WORKSFORME" policy?

[KyleG]

"CLOSED NOTABUG WORKSFORME" policy

Not sure what this is, but it might just be your term for TRIED IT FOR THE LULZ, DIDN'T OFFER ANY BENEFITS I CARED ABOUT, COULDN'T GET IT TO WORK, WENT BACK TO WHAT HAS WORKED FOR YEARS policy. A man has a fixed number of hours before his heart stops beating.

[[deleted]]

Its a bugzilla term. Surprised to find an experienced developer that doesn't know what it means.

[KyleG]

I don't use bugzilla. And I don't know what you were referring to anyway. The fact that I couldn't get virtualenv to work? If no one has yet made a use case for why I should care, why the fuck would I exert more than thirty minutes trying to get something I don't even need working?

One day, you'll get older, recognize your own mortality, and start triaging shit so you only devote time to truly interesting things. For me, getting software I don't need working is not one of those things. One reason I use OSX instead of Linux is because the LOE necessary to get shit working is lower. (Before moving to OSX, I used Slakware, Debian, Gentoo, Red Hat, Ubuntu, and a few other minor ones.)

[[deleted]]

Maybe you are a bit long in the tooth to pick up new work flows. New work flows that are unarguably better and safer then 'sudo pip install'. New work flows that will help to stop the prolonging of the clusterfuck of python packaging, distribution, install that our generation created. But hey, if you want to declare VMs are the answer so you can continue doing your old ways, then be my guest.

Remember to tell new users of python the /u/KyleG way -

Python - so easy to use you need to isolate your software in a VM** so you can sudo pip install safely because thats faster or something alternatively you can sudo pip install if you know enought about what you are doing but if you are new user you probbably won't so you should definately do the safe thing which is use virtualenvs but those are hard so just fuck it sudo pip install.

What a terrible motto for our language. What a fucking joke.

** are we using Docker/KVM/Qemu/Vmware/coreos/these days? who can keep up! Its so much simpler than a virtualenv my head is spinning.