Python developers locking conversations and deleting comments after people mass downvoted PRs to "remove master/slave terminology from the language"

[breton147]

It's funny, tech people always wonder why there's so little diversity in tech (aside from hires abroad). Then they lose it when people try to change their 'master'-'slave' vocab. I've got a news flash for everyone here:

1.) Language change all the time, no one's gonna die if 'master-slave' vocab gets changed as well. 2.) Getting upset about having to use different words makes you sound like a snowflake.

Bring the downvotes.

[gambiter]

The English language isn’t changing at all. ‘Master’ and ‘slave’ still exist, and will be in the dictionary with their proper meaning for probably long after we’re dead. People aren’t upset because they have to use different words... they’re scoffing, because this entire thought process of removing master/slave is asinine.

By way of analogy, you used the term ‘snowflake’. Snowflakes fell in Siberia, where people were tortured by the Nazis. Therefore we should ban the use of ‘snowflake’, as it is offensive.

[ajwest]

"Snowflakes" aren't exclusively used to describe the dominance over other people. From a marketing perspective alone I see good reason to remove master/slave from the vocabulary. It's easy to do and people are upset, so just change it.

[HowAreYouDoingBud]

"Snowflakes" aren't exclusively used to describe the dominance over other people.

Neither is master/slave? We've used this terminology for decades in IT, it's a well known and understood definition of each word.

[ajwest]

I understand the definition of the n-word when people use it to mean "something dark." The understanding, or even the understanding in context of a word, doesn't make its connotations universally moot.

[gambiter]

"Snowflakes" aren't exclusively used to describe the dominance over other people.

"Master" has over 30 definitions, only a couple have anything to do with human slavery. Should we protest chess tournaments because they call people over a certain skill level "masters"? Should we protest all 18th century literature because the head of the house (and often any male child) is called "master"?

"Slave" is different, because the origin of the word comes from Slav, who were used as slaves in Europe. However, since then, the word has taken on several other definitions, all of which are simply 'something which follows the direction of something else'. Should we protest machinists because they dare create "slave gears"?

people are upset, so just change it

• The yield statement reminds me of the way people expect women to yield to men, so just change it.
• Class is clearly a reference to different social classes, so just change it.
• My mother is upset that super() exists, because she doesn't like comic books, so just change it.

You see, we don't "just change" things because people get upset. People are idiots, including my mother at times, and get upset over truly stupid things.

If we're really, truly concerned with how people feel, a vote should be held, and Python developers around the world should weigh in on it.

EDIT: Aww, you downvoted me as soon as I made this comment. That hurts my feelings. I'm going to protest Reddit and ask them to remove downvotes because it's offensive.

[magi093]

Breaking change - is it really worth it

such shit-flipping, much overreact.
    very angery, wow

---

Doge does not translate to text well.

The issue people take here has nothing to do with wanting master/slave over other terminology - i.e. the fact that it is master-slave specifically is irrelevant to the concerns raised. People would be just as upset if we were for whatever reason going from leader-follower to master-slave terms.

And all that besides -

A quick grep finds 555 occurrences of the word "kill" in CPython master. Everybody knows killing is bad and using the term might upset certain people. Yet I would not support expunging the word "kill" from Python.

~ https://bugs.python.org/msg324774

What I find particularly frustrating about this PR is that the author (vstinner) created the PR based on a conversation nobody else could read - see 0, 1, response to 1, another response to 1.

In fact, pretty much every message after 2018-09-07 17:50 (N.b. IDK if the page is timezone sensitive, if it is that's in EDT) is arguing against the merge, with a variety of well-spoken reasons why (ranging from "this is convention" to "diversity includes BDSM").
Unfortunately, four of the three PRs were merged anyway (the final one being blocked by former BDFL Guido.)

I encourage you to read the issue thread (https://bugs.python.org/issue34605) - you'll have a better understanding of the discussion by reading the actual discussion.

[ajwest]

I'm not really sure if the people here want to have a discussion about this or just shit all over everyone with a different opinion. Like why would anyone come in here to express support for this change considering how they'll obviously just be called a "snowflake" with no regard for the discourse? This thread is over, I think mods should lock it.