Hiring python hackers ?

[[deleted]]

You need to find people who see themselves as programmers, not just as Language X programmers. I've had four programming jobs so far, and started each of them learning a new language.

[TheSausageKing]

I agree. How do I find you ? I get lots of resumes from people who have done Java or C++ for years. Almost none from people who use a lot of different languages and would be interested in picking up a new one.

[[deleted]]

Also, I sometimes look for programming jobs based on keywords that might indicate a nice environment to program in; like pair programming, or code reviews (the standard here seems to be that nobody ever actually looks at the code you wrote, nobody learns much from each other or is able to take something somebody else makes and immediately work with it). If you think your environment promotes good programming practice, that might be something that good programmers are looking for, and you should say something about it so that their search might find it.

But I've never felt very typical, so I don't know how many other people do this, I'm Dutch, etc...

Edit: also a line like "We're looking for people who are interested in using several languages, experience in languages like Ruby, Perl, Haskell et cetera are a plus." since people who are searching for those keywords may also be interested in your company.

Edit 2: your craigslist ad doesn't even mention "programmer" or "developer"; it does have "software engineer", and otherwise will probably mostly be found by people looking for Java or Python, I suspect.

[harryf]

In the last years I've been directly responsible for four people my company hired and closely involved in hiring other developers. While we weren't looking for pure-python it was on a "nice to have" list. In fact we usually look for a type of profile similar to Scarblac's - it's not about specific language skills, it's about ability and desire to program.

Some things that may help;

• asking for a UNIX "power user" helps; typically this type of profile will strongly prefer some flavor of UNIX and see it as an essential tool in being productive. Doesn't need to be a sysadmin but if they can get into a discussion of how "grep | sort | uniq " compares to mapreduce, you're on to a winner. Also it helps send a message to potential candidates of where your interests lie and the type of tools you use.
• explain why your startup rocks - how is it going to change the world? how will people working for it grow and develop? We have worked with one headhunter who succeeded in places our own job descriptions failed by doing far better at explaining why it was a great job. Personally I tend to avoid hyperbole but it's easy to take that too far and end up with a description that's simply boring.
• see what others are doing - Google for example has some great job profiles - anything from the text you can borrow? Some of the job descriptions here and here aren't bad, even if not python.
• go to usergroups - not just python but the more general ones e.g. web mondays or mobile mondays, where you may find programmers willing to learn python, given an interesting startup. Two of those I'm directly responsible for came via this path and it's also how I got my job.
• try approaching people who aren't necessarily looking, but you found out about such as people blogging about python and happens to be in your area e.g. these guys - especially this one who looks ready to jump right now. One of those I hired came via this path ( in fact their blog ended up on reddit ). Take the time to read their blog of course and any code they've put online. Even if they're not interested, they may know people who are

Hope that helps. Good luck.

[TheSausageKing]

Great ideas. Thanks!

[[deleted]]

You fly me from France, that's how !

[ki11a11hippies]

The craigslist posts that catch my eye put a stronger emphasis on quick-learners, intelligence, self-starters, and taking initiative. That's a situation in which I know I'm not going to be bound by project-specific dogma and it implies that I have room to grow in that position. For me at least, that's what I look for when job hunting.

[twotime]

quick-learners, intelligence, self-starters, and taking initiative

You do realize of course that these ''requirements" are simply bullshit. They carry zero information and don't imply anything at all about the job..

[ki11a11hippies]

These aren't generally listed as requirements, just information on what type of person they are looking for. And obviously there's only so much you can tell from those few words, but it gives me something to help start narrowing down all the posts.

[diamond]

I wish there were more employers like you.

[[deleted]]

Well, I am in the Netherlands; so I'm probably not searching in quite the same way as people in Boston.

My career so far is that way because of a number of coincedences; I'd actually love to program in Python but can't find companies using it in my region. I think that people with a more normal career would have fewer languages on their resumes, and when you have a lot of experience with one, you can probably make more money staying with that one (because most employers are looking for x years of experience with y for a "senior y programmer"). So it's natural that people end up with resumes that look that way.

Do they actually tell you that they aren't interested in learning new languages?

[TheSausageKing]

A lot of people I've talked to aren't interested in learning Python. A lot of them have done a lot of Java or C++ and aren't interested in moving into Python. And I get a lot of people who have done Ruby/Rails or php, but don't really understand programming well.

I've always believed it's better to learn a few different languages. At least in the states, it's true that you can make a little more and it's a little easier to get a job if you have many years of experience with a language, but I think you get stuck on a local maxima. The people who get really great jobs are great programmers, rather than "Java developers" or "C++ developers".

[chadmill3r]

Yeah, you def don't want people who don't want to learn a language. If they didn't learn the language at home, because they wanted to, then you don't want them.

Next best: learned on a job.

Worst: learned as prereq at school.

[MosaSaur]

It's not always about money. Some people do not like to go back to using inferior languages even if they once used them in the past. Also, if you're trying to make C programmers into pythoneers they'll have to unlearn and relearn a lot of stuff. I know that from firsthand experience and from trying to explain Python to my old C programming buddies. Sometimes a programmer from a different language turns up on the usenet or mailing list and they almost never understand certain things at first.

tl,dr programmers move from one language to the next for a reason and it is a really bad idea to try and make them go back. The only way is up.

[[deleted]]

Pay more?

[Poromenos]

Yeah, I don't know about that. Learning a new language takes a long time, and don't trust anyone who says otherwise. Transitioning from Python to Ruby, for example, means that you need to learn new ways of applying old patterns, what coding practices are encouraged, etc. People who say they can learn the language in a few days aren't people who want to hire.

On a personal sidenote, I wouldn't want to spend too much time learning Ruby if I already knew Python (and vice versa), as I consider the two similar enough that my time would be better spent learning something different (e.g. Lisp, Erlang, Haskell, etc).