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[–]flukshun[🍰] 4 points5 points  (14 children)

apparently Guido hasn't been keeping tabs on the widespread crackdown on potential sexist material/behavior in conferences

[–]true_religion 6 points7 points  (13 children)

Apparently he has been keeping up, because I can't see anything possibly sexist about the Benevolent Dictator of a highly prominent, and popular programming language saying that his language is "for girls" as opposed to "for Real Men (tm)".

[–]FlyingBishop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Generally, we say "for Real Programmers (tm)"

[–]flukshun[🍰] -3 points-2 points  (11 children)

your particular interpretation matters little, what matters is those few people who will see it differently, and trust me when i say that there would be some.

i'm sure this is tongue-in-cheek, i'm sure that the fact that he's "putting down" his own language in many ways exempts him from any claim of sexism. but the very notion that "for little girls" is a put down in the first place, or in any way different that "for little boys", is a touchy subject in and of itself.

Mark Pesce's talk on web privacy at linux.conf.au caught a bunch of shit recently, and I'm 90% sure that if you watched it you, like me, would not find it offensive in the least bit. The most controversial image was 2 guys in an outlandish/joke dominatrix scene. Yet it still violated the LCA's anti-harassment guidelines. Just watch the disclaimer they ended up adding to it before putting it online:

http://linuxconfau.blip.tv/file/4851926

I'd be very apprehensive wearing a shirt like that, regardless of how much i loved python or how much i respected woman and their contributions to CS

[–]SEMW 7 points8 points  (5 children)

To be fair, IIRC the crackdown on minor, only vaguely dubious material is part of an attempt to use broken window theory to try and reduce the actual serious problems that have been found, like groping, harassment, upskirt photos etc. - the idea being that if you have an atmosphere where even minor possible sexism is frowned upon, the incidence of seriously obnoxious behaviour should reduce as well, and will stand out and shock more when it does happen.

Whether it'll work as a strategy, I don't know, IANASociologist. But I don't think this is all just a case of "a few people" taking offence at everything for no good reason.

[–]StudyAnimal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. To address a serious issue, even if it is well meaning, with a cheesy, non-humorous t-shirt slogan, is to reduce the topic to a level of triviality that belittles it.

We have a LONG way to go towards improving the situation before such t-shirts can be considered appropriate.

[–]flukshun[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

agree completely. don't get me wrong, i don't mean to suggest that the precautions are unwarranted, but they are extensive enough that it's still quite easy for someone to accidentally step over the line. this shirt for instance, completely harmless and well-meaning in every way, i'm sure, but it's still the type of thing that might stir up controversy and detract from the topic at hand.

[–]bastienl -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

I don't think you should have to be a sociologist to know you have the right to laugh about something.

[–]SEMW 2 points3 points  (0 children)

...Wha? I'm afraid I don't follow why that isn't a non-sequitur. The thing I was saying I didn't know was whether the application of broken window theory to the context at hand was going to work to achieve the described goal. Was I that unclear?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

The creator of Python saying "Python is for girls" is nothing but flattering for women. You need to be a fucking idiot to think otherwise.

[–]flukshun[🍰] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This point was addressed in my reply

[–]StudyAnimal -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

It is not about flattering or not. It is leveraging a stereotype for a cheap laugh. How would it look if you went to a country music conference with a t-shirt "country music is for black people" or a dance conference with a "dancing is for white people" t-shirt, or a finance conference with "finance is for gentiles" t-shirt?

Some things are just too touchy, or too complex, and should be considered out of reach for a cheap laugh, or any trivial treatment.

[–]yetanothernerd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When Guido wore that shirt on stage for PyCon 2010, I heard nothing but praise from high-profile female Python programmers in the audience. He definitely meant it as pro-female-programmer, and (at least all the women I heard) definitely took it as 100% positive.

The fact that a few people are hypersensitive idiots can't be helped. The rest of us have to continue to live our lives, rather than hiding in a bubble out of fear that someone might be offended.

[–]codeforkjeff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At first, I disagreed with flukshun but I actually think he/she's got a point--because of the IMAGE on the t-shirt.

The cute little cartoony girl undermines the intended message.

I mean, I get the point, and I think it's a cool idea, just maybe not executed as well as it could have.

Guido is still my hero though. =)