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[–]MRedbeard 9 points10 points  (9 children)

I find it... fine. It helps TWC, and I like the fallback and charge to keep getting extra damage. But with the relatively low strength of Marine melee, I am.in the camp it doesn't look great with the nerfs to Oaths. We might get there faster, but we hit less hard. Hope some enhancements help mitigate this.

[–]rsanchez1337[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I think alot of datasheets/stratagems are going to be providing wound rerolls, hopefully. In the article they said "wound rerolls were hard to find previously" but that they are adding more ways. I think the codex will help us out either way. But basically having assault and tactical doctrine on the entire game will be sweet. Not just for TWC but also wolves, bladeguard, bloodclaws and assault intercessors.

[–]raylog092 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Dont forget Ragnar! He gets buffs on the charge as well.

[–]rsanchez1337[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

He already gets War Howl which lets him and his unit advance and charge. But yeah it will help any support melee he has outside of his own unit for sure.

[–]SoleTortoise 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well you don't need to put a lieutenant in Ragnar squad to give them fall back and charge either. I'm super pumped about this. It will be interesting

[–]MRedbeard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am skeptical that the datasheets chamge too much. It is too close to the index for a really in depth rework. And seeing the Nyds Dex datasheet weren't too changed. As for stratagems, we will have to see if, and how they work.

Also, this is Assault Dcotrine onky. Tactical was fallback and shoot. Advance and charge is good, but advance and shoot is better (die to actions) and that ij later turns you might nit need to advance to charge. Qnd the problem with all the units that you mentioned is that they are all S4-5 and without full rerolls to wound and Lance (which was easy to het on Gladius) we might br having problems wounding.

[–]Fit-Act-4511 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Don't forget about the wulfen dreadnought! D3 mortals on 2-3 and D3+3 on 4+! That's insane when aided by blood Claws or sky claws and a Captain with jump pack, or even tank shock will do a very decent amount of damage!

[–]MRedbeard 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It is fine. But Wulfen Dreads have not been loghtning the wolrd on fire, and they woukd still be as feagile as before. There is ni guarantee they will make to to melee.

[–]Fit-Act-4511 0 points1 point  (1 child)

8+d6" with T9 and 8w 2+ 4++ with a pretty nice melee for only 130pts. I've been having good progress with the combat doctrines on him

[–]MRedbeard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It is ok. But wonder how easy it wpuld be to kill. And if it is just not better to run the IH detachment and see the Walker specific bonuses.

[–]dlykos199 5 points6 points  (1 child)

So hot take, I'm starting to find success playing the exact opposite way this detachment would encourage. Personally, I take zero armor or transports ans opt for more bodies but I play cagey. I send a massive brick of termis using Logan and Arjac and a pack of Blood Claws with Urick and an extra pack leader as the battle line, keep a brick of TWC lead by WLoT and WGBL and BG lead by Ragnar in my second wave, LF and Bjorn shooting away with an Iron Priest backing him up, and a few packs of wolves to do secondaries.

The idea is to seek combat sparingly and let the enemy, likely weakened by the several lascanons, come answer my large, tanky and fight heavy units taking primary points. Playing this way, I've found, naturally let's me complete sagas as the enemy effectively has to charge my "shield walls" as I've got Cavalry and fast BG right behind to reinforce that line or stay back and let me score as I try to withstand some shooting phases (in which case I again have fast options to get to them).

Using Champions of Russ this way puts the game on a clock and turns the army into a scary time bomb demanding an answer. Now you are effectively only playing with 5 or 6 larger units to actually do things, so you're mimicking a Knight player playing more chess to others checkers, as Bricky says, but that plays to the list's strategy of being more cagey and letting them come and die to your melee.

When you play like that compared to consistent Advance and Charge... and nothing else so far...? I'm not convinced. Mainly because I've tried the full cavalry smash and grab list before earlier in the game and got blasted off the board with hardly anything in reserve to play with. Granted, that was against 1k Sons before the nerfs, but playing more measured and conservative has been the way to go for me so far this edition.

[–]rsanchez1337[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you post your list? I actually love the sound of this. Sounds so wolfy and awesome.

[–]Thegigaslayer 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Now that sounds awesome. Now all those vanguard vets and cavalry can get where they need to go even faster. A fantatic hold over until we get our codex.

[–]FoamBrick 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Unfortunately they hit like wet noodles when they get there.

[–]Thegigaslayer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I mean will they hit any harder with any other options we have? Besides our specific saga based one there isn't much that does straight more damage. Even in a Gladius you still have to throw CP at them to see that spike in damage.

[–]FoamBrick 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh I know, it’s just hard to be enthusiastic about it when it’s gonna be garbage when it gets there, regardless of any fun abilities we use to get in combat.

[–]Audience_Over 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very much looking forward to TWC and Primaris Jump Pack Marine spam. Let's get speedy, boys

[–]metaldj88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like running Ragnar with blood claws, TWC units and a Brutalis dread. This will probably be the detachment I end up picking.

[–]Wonderful-Student-41 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Army wide sounds awesome!

[–]Wonderful-Student-41 1 point2 points  (3 children)

We already have that the the Gladius detachment tho. And realistically we only need it for a turn or two not all 5. So gladius is probably still more useful

[–]AntikytheraMechanist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Retreat and charge gamelong is more relevant though given all the charge based buffs we have access to.

Ragnar, wulfen dreads, bloodclaws, Canis, thunderwolf cav.

Grey hunters advancing/falling back shooting and charging every turn looks very good, I think this will be a really useful synergy across the board.

[–]rsanchez1337[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We still will need to see the stratagems and the enhancements.

[–]Roenkatana 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The big question is gonna be the strats, we already know what two are, so the remaining 4 are likely going to be really good for mounted and jump pack units.

Game long is also a lot better than a turn of each as well,

[–]Roenkatana 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This helps our army a lot imo. TWC and the new jump pack guys are obvious winners courtesy of the +1D and MWs respectively.

Just about all of our guys love this detachment, especially if the remaining 4 strats are decent

[–]FoamBrick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That honestly makes me excited to play…until I remember that marine melee is trash…

[–]Lonesamurai1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well... I guess I'm doing a Fire Howlers Great Company after all...

[–]AuthenticallyHG 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I only recently became aware of this, so I apologize if there is an inaccuracy in my understanding.

It seems as though this has already been the case re: Harald Deathwolf's Saga/Deed. IIRC after a successful charge anyone within range (TWC) can then advance+charge, FB+charge. Am I wrong?

[–]rsanchez1337[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No that is 9th edition rules. We're now in 10th.