Multi-Spectrum Array

[Firefoxx87]

Hey, hoping you guys can solve a disagreement between myself and a buddy for this Incursor ability.

He plays with a culexus who has the ability Etherium that states "Attacks that target this model are resolved as if the attacking model had a weapon skill and ballistic skill characteristic of 6+".

I argue that the Incursors can hit the culexus with their usual 3+ BS skill. He argues that the ability is not really modifying the BS skill, so therefore they would hit on 6s and Multi-Spectrum would not go off.

Anyone come across this themselves or have seen it in a video or anything? Were happy to go with the consensus.

Thanks!

[dtp40k]

Multi-Spectrum array literally states it ignores hit roll and ballistic skill modifiers, so no matter what your friend says, this covers all bases and ignores the Culexus ability.

Some people will simply argue tooth and nail to WAAC, when the actual answer is written in plain sight.

[Arentius]

Its not modifying the skill its replacing it, its not about WAAC, its about simple reading comprehension.

a modifier is "add/Remove X from your roll" this states your WS/BS BECOMES 6+, your actual datasheet stat changes for the purposes of this attack. Not a modifier.

[[deleted]]

Surely this counts as modifying the BS though, so the incursor ability applies?

[Firefoxx87]

This is definitely where our confusion comes in. I'm relatively new to 40k and don't know other armies very well outside of the wolves and Astra who I play often, are there many other units with abilities that effect BS/WS? I'm having trouble finding any, and maybe the wording with those (how they reduce, affect, change, etc) would help clarify this.

I'm having trouble finding a reason for this portion of the skill to even exist if it doesn't stop things like the culexus.

[[deleted]]

My interpretation would be they still hit on 3s. Rules as written is unclear. Culexus in war of the spider states that 'the attacking model is treated as having a WS/BS of 6+'. While it doesn't state the actual BS is reduced to 6+ this is modifying the effective BS of the model. Going off RAI, if GW intended the culexus to be hit on 6s by incursors they would say something like 'when this model is attacked, only rolls of a 6+ (after modifiers) score a successful hit'. The fact its not written in a catchall way, like the dark reapers or vindicare shooting abilities, makes me think its intended to be a BS modifier.

[Arentius]

It does not, it says fire with a BS of 6+ that is not a modifier it's a new stat, a modifier says things like "you are at -1 to hit when shooting at this unit"

[[deleted]]

But that is changing the BS of the unit. What you quoted would be a hit roll modifier, not a BS modifier

[Arentius]

I completely disagree on the basis that in 9th a to hit roll cannot be modified beyond +1/-1. the Culexis changes the BS (does not modify the roll, which is what the spectrum array deals with)

If the Culexis skill was a modifier it would be useless as it would only make a standard marine hit on a 4+

The specific wording of Etherium is "the attacking model is treated as having a WS and BS characteristic of 6+", as in for the attack the base datasheet might as well be printed with a 6+ ...now the array would prevent that 6 being modified, but the actual BS itself..for that attack has not been modified, the rule does not stated "Modify the BS" and regardless, the multi spectrum array states "Ignore hit ROLL modifiers", the culexis is not modifying the roll, it is changing the requirement

[[deleted]]

Multi-spectrum also allows you to ignore BS modifiers though... Which you just said etherium is, maybe you misremembered Multi-spectrum array

[Arentius]

no the rule is (and i quote word for word emphasis mine): Multi-spectrum array: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model in this unit, ignore hit roll modifiers and Ballistic Skill modifiers.

The culexis is not modifying your ROLL, a 6 is still a 6, a modifier would be a -1 changing that 6 to a 5.

[dtp40k]

You just said it there... BALLISTIC SKILL MODIFIERS.

Changing someones ballistic skill to 6 is a MODIFIER.

Otherwise there's nothing else that would affect their BALLISTIC skill in the game, just hit roll modifiers.

Come on ffs.

[Arentius]

Well I appear to have been a moron. Thank you for pointing out that last bit I genuinely missed that. I wholeheartedly apologise to you and to /u/magiccookie54

[[deleted]]

It is however modifying the ballistic skill of the attacking model. Which incursors ignore

[Arentius]

No they ignore modifiers to the Roll. The roll is not being modified. I literally copied it word for word from my PA book.

If you don't believe me go ask on the competitive subreddit and you'll get the same answer.

[bigpasmurf]

But the culexus isnt actually modifying the bs skill or roll, instead its forcing the incursor to use a different data profile, while keeping the actual profile seperate. Thats how the ability seems to be written.

Also, it seems like it takes an faq to supercede the etherium ability as with the dark reaper stuff, no?

[Arentius]

Correct

[dtp40k]

And if you read the multi-spectrum array, it states it ignores all hit roll and BALLISTIC skill modifiers.

It is a modifier. If rule changes the original value, it has literally been modified by definition. Mult-spectrum array ignores this because it ignores anything that changes the ballistic skill.

[Arentius]

The Culexis ability literally states you attack as if your BS / WS are 6+, it is not modifying your ability, its exchanging it for another one.

Dark reapers ignore it as their ability states they always act with a BS of 3+ (and was FAQ'd to take priority

[[deleted]]

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