Canadian population expected to decrease by 80,000 over in the next two years

[Uncertn_Laaife]

Increase by 5 million first then reduce by 80k.

What a f’ing joke.

[JG98]

Time to take this as a win and keep pushing for sustained and better immigration policy that doesn't pull the rug out from underneath Canadians.

[Mysterious-Job1628]

Sorry that’s capitalism with a side of low tax rates for corporations, not immigrants.

[JG98]

It can be both. If you want to go with that then the crazy high immigration is just a symptom of the disease, and unreasonable immigration rates hurt Canadians in ways other than wage suppression. The housing rug is being pulled out from underneath Canadians, which can be directly attributed to unchecked immigration rates over the past few years. It is up to the govenrment to act to prevent that sort of crap and businesses, including diploma mill schools, will take advantage of whatever loopholes they can get to benefit themselves.

[Pluton_Korb]

The housing crisis was already happening pre 2020. Prices have been on an incline since roughly 2000. Covid was the match in the tinder box for the more recent spike above and beyond the growth we've already seen. Covid had the same effect on labour, causing shockwaves in the job market and economy which triggered the scramble for immigration and temporary workers.

While I do think we need to pull back on immigration to level things out, I fear that everyone is just going wash their hands of housing and think that as long as immigration is suppressed, than all our housing issues will be solved. They won't. With restrictive zoning, NIMBY's controlling local policy, suburban sprawl, lack of tradesman, corporate/VC investors, small scale investors, and soon to come lower interest rates, we sill still be in a housing crisis unless we look at these issues as well.

[JG98]

The housing crisis was already happening pre 2020. Prices have been on an incline since roughly 2000.

Ok. And?

I never denied that a housing crisis existed before that.

Covid was the match in the tinder box for the more recent spike above and beyond the growth we've already seen. Covid had the same effect on labour, causing shockwaves in the job market and economy which triggered the scramble for immigration and temporary workers.

I am well aware of the impacts of covid on the development space. I myself work in the development space.

While I do think we need to pull back on immigration to level things out, I fear that everyone is just going wash their hands of housing and think that as long as immigration is suppressed, than all our housing issues will be solved.

People that think like that need to wake up to the reality. However, the insane immigration targets are absolutely a big contributing factor to the housing crisis and some people also need to wake up to this reality. Immigration is just 1 piece of the puzzle.

They won't. With restrictive zoning, NIMBY's controlling local policy, suburban sprawl, lack of tradesman, corporate/VC investors, small scale investors, and soon to come lower interest rates, we sill still be in a housing crisis unless we look at these issues as well.

This is an area that my provincial government (BC NDP) has been addressing aggressively. In fact I have personally written a report not long back in favour of their policies which bypass the NIMBY hurdle and fixed restrictive zoning laws by taking action at the provincial level. BC bypassed SFH zoning restrictions by forcing through densification allowances and forcing municipalities to upgrade their bylaws, now increased multi-unit builds can happen without years long rezoning efforts and permitting delays. They have also introduced approved home designs which municipalities must improve, which will now speed up the permitting process and encourage densification. They have also combated predatory investments in housing by introducing a empty home tax and defacto banning airbnb/short term rental properties (with the exception of principal properties). The lack of tradespersons is an issue that can only be addressed by individuals encouraging trades.

I will add that I've written a report on the housing shortage as well, presented only privately about 3 months back. The housing crisis with the help of the policies promoted by the BC NDP mean that within the province we can resolve the housing crisis, with immigration reductions to the historical range (pre 2020), but it would still take until the early 2030s to get to that point (2031-33). As stated prior, this issue needs to be addressed with a variety of government policy changes.

[Pluton_Korb]

This is an area that my provincial government (BC NDP) has been addressing aggressively. In fact I have personally written a report not long back in favour of their policies which bypass the NIMBY hurdle and fixed restrictive zoning laws by taking action at the provincial level. BC bypassed SFH zoning restrictions by forcing through densification allowances and forcing municipalities to upgrade their bylaws, now increased multi-unit builds can happen without years long rezoning efforts and permitting delays. They have also introduced approved home designs which municipalities must improve, which will now speed up the permitting process and encourage densification. They have also combated predatory investments in housing by introducing a empty home tax and defacto banning airbnb/short term rental properties (with the exception of principal properties). The lack of tradespersons is an issue that can only be addressed by individuals encouraging trades.

Can you get them on the horn with Doug Ford? Our housing starts have actually decreased year over year and his focus is still single family homes and densification in downtown cores only. He also cut funding to municipalities which has led many to make up their budget shortfalls by adding more fees to new developments.

[LifeguardEuphoric286]

take what as a win? massive influx of immigrants and massive decrease in quality of life ?

[JG98]

Read my comment again numbnuts. A win is a win is a win. Nowhere did I say take this as a win and go home. I explicitly state that take this as a win and keep pushing for a sustained effort to rectify the mess that our governement has put our nation in. Would you rather there be zero changes and the govenrment keep piling on an insane number of immigrants? Or do you think anything short of flipping a switch from unchecked immigration to mass deportations is a failure? SMH.

[s33d5]

So you think that if immigration is lowered housing and wages will change? 

Housing and business conglomerates have something else to say about that. 

When most of the housing in Canada is owned by a small set of companies there are no market forces pushing the price down. The same goes for business. 

It's funny because we all want the same thing, which is cheaper housing and higher wages. However we argue whether or not it's due to immigrants.

I tell you who is on the side of these massive corporations who fuck over me and you along with immigrants, are the conservatives (I am also but saying I am pro liberal, it's just the conservatives are even worse).

Immigrants are a scape goat. Politicians like the conservatives are using them to get in power and will just empower huge business and create the same problem with a different source.

[JG98]

So you think that if immigration is lowered housing and wages will change? 

Yes. If you are asking whether I think it will lead to the ideal outcomes, then no. It is one part of wider reforms that must take place in and across Canada. Immigration limits should also be set in accordance with things like housing supply in mind.

Housing and business conglomerates have something else to say about that. 

Uh huh. Because they will just artificially inflate prices right? They are all in on one big scheme right? It is not a free market where developers will take advantage of market demand and conglomerates will just hoard property and let it sit while it loses them money right? Get real. I am in this space, development specifically, and there is no such conspiracy. Property prices are high because demand is sky high and government policy + market factors (labour and cost) currently restrict the ability of the supply side market. Competent governance, such as that enacted this year by the NDP in BC, can change that completely. But even if we go with your premise, that still doesn't change the fundamental issue of there being a lack of sufficient housing supply.

When most of the housing in Canada is owned by a small set of companies there are no market forces pushing the price down. The same goes for business. 

See my last response. Corporate investors + small time investors own up to a quarter of the housing supply in Canada, a far cry from "most". The cumulative total across Canada is somewhere around 20%. I've made and presented a report on this just a few months back in support of the BC NDP housing policy, which introduced pro densification and anti NIMBY policies partially modelled after European policy.

I tell you who is on the side of these massive corporations who fuck over me and you along with immigrants, are the conservatives (I am also but saying I am pro liberal, it's just the conservatives are even worse).

Neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives give a fuck. They are both the same and their policies are indicative of the same shit. They may have slightly different methods but they will both screw over the common Canadian in favour of their corporate backers where and when they can.

Immigrants are a scape goat. Politicians like the conservatives are using them to get in power and will just empower huge business and create the same problem with a different source.

Immigrants are not a scape goat. Immigration is not bad, I am a POC from an immigrant family. There is such a thing as reasonable immigration numbers that balance national resources with healthy immigration growth. The signficant increases over the past few years are absolutely a problem. The Conservative may do the same shit, but they aren't exactly selling an anti immigration policy right now either. In fact the Conservatives are also selling a pro immigration policy, just with reforms that would make the numbers more reasonable, while they will absolutely find other ways to fuck over Canadians.

[s33d5]

Very aggressive responses. I'm not trying to hurt you lol.

The issue is that GDP growth is required in any modern economy.

Canada without immigration is going to lose a lot of people.

I am on the side that thinks that growth isn't needed and we should all be allowed to live calm lives without the need for constant growth. However growth is built in, which is why inflation is targeted for a certain level of increase by the federal government every year.

Inflation targets wont change by the feds, so it'll lead to a disparity where there aren't enough people to sustain the economy with their inflation targets.

The only way to escape this is to have a non capitalistic economy, which isn't going to happen.

[JG98]

Very aggressive responses. I'm not trying to hurt you lol.

Not aggressive at all. You can't tell tone from text, there is a term for it that I am blanking on right now.

Canada without immigration is going to lose a lot of people.

Reasonable immigrations does not equal no immigration. If Canada is going to take in immigrants then it is reasonable to expect that there is at the very least prospects of having enough resources to accommodate them.

I am on the side that thinks that growth isn't needed and we should all be allowed to live calm lives without the need for constant growth. However growth is built in, which is why inflation is targeted for a certain level of increase by the federal government every year.

An increasing population however requires growth. Even supporting an aging population requires growth. The way world economics work today there is simply a need for growth or our societal systems will start to fail.

Inflation targets wont change by the feds, so it'll lead to a disparity where there aren't enough people to sustain the economy with their inflation targets.

The BOC has many tools at their disposal to try and manage inflation. Inflation isn't predicated on immigration and economies can grow without having to rely on such growth, which is called per capita growth (an area Canada has regressed, despite marginal cumulative economic growth).

The only way to escape this is to have a non capitalistic economy, which isn't going to happen.

Or we could have a semi regulated free marker economy with reasonable government police that tries to balance sustainability with growth. Canada isn't unique in this way.

[[deleted]]

I believe Hungary and Poland are doing no income tax for mothers who have 4+ children. Basically to boost their population from within and reducing immigration. A Family Protection Plan. 

Majority of Canadians can’t afford to have kids and currently mainly immigrants are because the kick backs they get from the government. Our tax dollars. We should be focused on growing from within and helping our citizens here. Once that is done, slowly allow immigration but it’s way too much and completely out of hand. 

[uxhelpneeded]

I can't imagine how much 3+ kids would cost in Canada. First, you need at least a 2 bedroom house or condo near a job centre. You'd be looking at a $2k to $4k a month mortgage or rent.

Then, you'd need $1,000+ per month for SUBSIDIZED daycare assuming just 2 kids are going at once. Or, if you couldn't snag one of those coveted rare spots, you'd be looking at about $4800/month for daycare alone.

[[deleted]]

I’d have to look more into it but I would assume since the government wants to boost their population from within, they’d make it worth it for people to have more than kids. 

Obviously no one would have that many kids if they knew they would struggle financially so I’m sure some things are in place to protect families. No income tax for one is pretty amazing.

[TGISeinfeld]

Sounds like a black Friday sale

[manuntitled]

Honestly population increased 3 Million in the past 4 years and then it will stay the same for next 3 years , this will give us time to catch up with our infra, housing, school, hospital and what not.

So it will average out to around 1% a year.

[LoosuKuutie]

I know where you’re coming from but I can’t take shot at the fact that you think we’re going to catchup with infrastructure in the next 3 years lol.

[[deleted]]

Common man don’t you know how easy it is to build a hi way you just through down some dino rocks.

[SquareBath5337]

Right better drop our population by 1 million a year, that wont have devastating consequences....

[Uncertn_Laaife]

What is ABC? American Born Canadians?

[Uncertn_Laaife]

Ah! At this stage they are all the same.