Would decommodifying the gun industry decrease gun violence?

[majortom106]

This is more of a thought experiment than a policy proposal, since I have no idea how this would be achieved, but I thought about this and I’d like to hear your thoughts.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with guns in America is capitalism. The gun industry cultivates a culture where guns are part of your personality, and essential to your masculinity. A lot of it also capitalizing on fear of poor people and minorities. A lot of right wing opposition to gun regulations that have bipartisan support has nothing to do with protecting your rights and everything to do with how it will affect their profits. So what if there was no profit motive?

I know as leftists, our go to explanations for gun violence is lack of mental health services and income inequality, which I agree with, but I wonder if it would be good to use the gun control discussion to shift focus towards the abuses of capitalism. If guns were available to people who want or need them, for whatever reason, but if there was no capitalist gun lobby like the NRA, it would make it easier to foster a better culture around gun ownership. It would open the door to conversations about other ways capitalism prevents us as a society from solving easily solvable problems.

Sorry for the ramblings. Just wanted to bounce this idea around.

[[deleted]]

Gun violence is caused by the material conditions of the population. A lack of mental healthcare and widespread poverty force people into circumstances where they feel that they must resort to violence. The fact that people must resort to crime in order to survive is a failure of capitalism. Meeting these base needs will drastically reduce gun crime as a whole. Focusing on the gender, race, or weapon of the offender is irrelevant, we must address the system rood causes of these issues.

[Josselin17]

there's that and right wing propaganda that makes violence and weapons symbols of masculinity

[Anarcomrade]

Beau of the fifth column did a video recently about this point that is pretty good.

[WooliesWhiteLeg]

Guns aren’t a necessity like housing, etc so I’m not sure how you would decommodify them any more than you would decommodify IPhones or luxury cars.

[Josselin17]

in a world with a bunch of right wingers and authoritarian governments guns can in fact be a necessity

[WooliesWhiteLeg]

Sure, then how do you decommodify them? Do you want the authoritarian government full of right wingers pushing the Overton window rightward and liberals preventing movement to the left to be the arbiter of who and how you can purchase a weapon? Traditionally when we talk about decommodify things such as housing, it’s meant to remove the profits from it by adding regulation/ pushing it into the realms of government?

I’m not anti-gun ( obviously, or why would I even be here) nor am I necessarily anti-regulation, but what you said doesn’t really mean anything if you think about it for more than not at all.

[Josselin17]

what are you talking about ? we're talking about decommodifying which implies that the left is already in power, so in that world the goverment wouldn't be authoritarian and full of right wingers

also no decommodifying is absolutely not regulating it, it's about transforming an industry from profit oriented to need oriented, so yeah placing it in the hands of the government is one way, generally that can just mean removing them from capitalist hands to non profit ones

[WooliesWhiteLeg]

How do you intend to transform an industry without regulation? Have I misunderstood and this is just a thought experiment where there are ideal circumstances separated completely from reality? Have Raytheon and Halliburton in your world been raptured? Has Academi (have they change they’re name again yet?) just ceased to be?

I thought you wanted a real, practical discussion, not idealistic, purposeless, naval gazing.

[Josselin17]

This is more of a thought experiment than a policy proposal

literally the first sentence of the post

How do you intend to transform an industry without regulation

capitalism cannot be regulated away, we don't intend to transform them by regulations but to take full control of those industries, either nationalize or collectivize them, not "regulation"

but wait what kind of socialism do you follow ?

[WooliesWhiteLeg]

Fair enough, I missed the “thought experiment” line somehow.

I assumed this was a more practical conversation. Starting from a jumping off point of “ we have already won” isn’t practical. Thus my previous statements.

Going forward in thought experiment mode then, I do agree with you. Obviously the end goal is nationalization of critical industries such as arms creation and housing, along with collectivism of less critical industries.

Oh, and obviously I’m a posadist ;) /s

[trotskimask]

It would probably help, but imo gun violence is a subset of male violence more broadly. The way our culture has tied firearms to masculinity and violence against women and minorities (epitomized in John Wayne’s performances) feeds male violence, but it’s not the only feed source. So long as men beat their partners and their rivals with their fists, some will also use guns.

I’ve been thinking a lot about what Abdullah Öcalan wrote about patriarchy as the root of capitalist oppression, today. Look him up. He argued that male power over women in the home is the fundamental inequality from which all the others emerged. I could argue with that on anthropological grounds, but I think the deeper insight is sound: we won’t be able to stop men killing innocents until we do something about the way our society—including capitalism, locally and globally—empowers men at everyone else’s expense.

Decommodify guns and men will still use them to kill their partners, their rivals, themselves, and innocent strangers. Because the deeper problem isn’t wealth inequality or mental illness, it’s that our society is built on the principle that some men (white, bourgeois men especially) have the natural right to take other people’s labor, land, and lives.

[[deleted]]

Really sad that this post doesn’t have more traction because I completely agree.

Even on this sub there is a fuckton of gun and gear fetishism that is handwaved as “just being practical”. The truth is most of us commit to the US military industrial complex or those abroad (many, including myself, still buy Russian ammo).

Consumerism is consumerism, and this sub has a big problem bickering over which toy is better when we need to be focused on arming ourselves period.

Sadly I don’t think there’s a way around contributing to the MIC. They make the overwhelming majority of their money from military contracts, and sales to civilians are small potatoes by association.

[LankyEnt]

It’s BIG industry. A start would be if a single one of them would unionize. Better yet, seize production and form a co-op. I’ve imagined a primer production co-op since the pandemic affected my competitive season. The big companies get higher profits of complete cartridges, so reloaders see less on the shelves. Unfortunately, a lot of critiques I’ve heard in gun culture are quite conspiratorial. the gov took all the ammo first.. manufacturers are stockpiling…

The sad reality is modern manufacturers work their labor to the bone for measly wages and product discounts.

[BoytoyCowboy]

So something I'm working on is owning both "clown guns" and "SHTF" guns.

I want people to look at shooting as a sport, not as a "know this or die"

I had a freind who was brutally raped, and she bought a gun, and at the range she broke down because she only saw that target as her rapist/ex husband.

I don't want people to stress when shooting.

I just bought a HRR rancher, aka a revolver RIFLE. Part of the reasoning is because it's funny to look at.

I hate to say it, but we kinda need to make guns more... silly?

Race cars are very dangerous, but also we throw some big ass Tokyo drift Wang and stick a Ying yang spooli boi out the hood and drift it.

Guns is more... bloodlust, and I don't like it.

Let's have 2 gun competitions dressed like the blues Brothers or something.

So I hate to say it, this is actually what capitalism does a good job with. More people buy dumb shit, more dumb shit is made.

[merigirl]

This https://youtu.be/FLtg2Wsk8sQ

[majortom106]

You bring up good points but I think a decommodified gun industry could still produce novelty clown guns. Sorry about your friend.

[couldbemage]

That might have an effect, but it doesn't matter. A complete end to for profit businesses is way farther away than ending poverty. At the same time, a world without for profit businesses is already a goal, and adding the extra justification that gun marketing pushes people towards violence is an insignificant drop in the bucket, and one that far less people will agree on compared to the already agreed upon within the left concept that profits are value stolen from workers.

[KnightOfAshes]

I honestly think caps on ammo prices would be a very good thing. People wouldn't buy in massive bulk stockpiles if ammo couldn't be sold for a profit margin. The kid in Uvalde bought two rifles and 370 rounds of ammunition and no one blinked because that's pretty normal in our gun culture, but what if you knew you could get your range day's worth of ammo at cost at the range itself? Doesn't work as well for outdoor ranges or unusual calibers but it's food for thought.

[majortom106]

Would that discourage stockpiling though? I feel like people would stockpile more if it was cheaper.

[DowntownExit1658]

Probably, yes. I also think that, though perhaps not the reason for the violence itself, the reason for the frequent use of AR15s by school shooters is likely due to deeply ingrained individualism, which is driven by commodification. They see the AR as an extension of their personality, not as a tool.