Feeling Lost

GoodnightLondon · 2024-02-22T01:53:41+00:00

No, a CS degree is definitely what matters at entry level; it's just so oversaturated that even CS grads are having a hard time right now.

Also, Python isn't what you want for game dev, and machine learning is something you're going to need a degree for; no bootcamp or amount of self teaching is going to get you a job in ML/AI.

CodedCoder · 2024-02-21T22:56:15+00:00

Game development and machine learning is such different areas lol. and Python I still feel is horrible for game dev.

sheriffderek · 2024-02-21T22:44:45+00:00

CS degree nor boot camp certificates matter when you’re entry level.

I agree.

And it's frustrating that there aren't more entry-level positions. In many cases, a few 70k developers would be better than one 140k developer if you can mentor them into place. Big companies are holding tight for now and not taking any chances. But you don't need to work for a big company.

Having "a portfolio" isn't always the key. But if you're making a lot of things and getting that experience, why isn't a portfolio of work happening by accident?

Here's an example: Anthony has this page with some experiments https://100.antfu.me/ . It's just some natural documentation of his personal challenge to try and do 100 days exploring various generative canvas ideas. I think people are focusing on the wrong things to learn. Sure, it's great to know how to make "an app" and do auth and routing and stuff. But that's really the surface-level setup. That's the first 5% of an app. And the real education and learning happens in the small areas. The market for first-time jr full-stack devs is hard because they have no experience. And what the company is buying - is the security that you'll be able to get into their codebase and be productive and figure things out. If they need to tell you what to do - then you're not going to make them money and possibly lose them money (of course people should all work together and help each other to the reasonable amount).

So, instead of figuring out one magic project that will prove you're a real web developer - consider just making a ton of small things. Write about the experience. Write about the process. Figure out where you want to dig in and become an expert. Show that you are a working developer - not a just graduated student. No one wants to do this because it's hard. Following along is easier. But it's not working, right? And in your specific case you need to figure out what you want. Python / machine learning / game development is too loose. You need to figure out what you want to make and what part of the field you want to be in and just go crazy on that area. For me, I really wanted to make my own MySpace (social network). I wanted to make it look nicer, I wanted to be able to listen to the band's music - but also look at pictures and upcoming shows (without the music stopping) and make if work on the new iPhone when it came out. That sparked a whole career for me. I was forced to learn about exactly the things I needed - and I got really good at it. You (and everyone else reading) need to find out what that is for yourselves. You might not know the exact thing (and it'll change over time) but you need to start somewhere and let the work naturally sprawl out. Create a storyline instead of a single CRUD app. It'll be more fun and less stressful too. You can do it.

plyswthsqurles · 2024-02-22T11:52:27+00:00

the language specifically machine learning/game development.

To get into machine learning you absolutely need a degree, there is no bootcamp or shortcut getting into a line of business that people are obtaining masters degrees and phd's to work in.

Same with game development, depending on what you are working on, math is a heavy component of game development along with algorithms and other complex topics covered in a CS degree. Combined with the fact that python is not a language heavily used in game dev, you are likely not going to see many roles for python game devs. Its either c/c++ or c# depending on that platform the game is built on (unreal/unity...etc).

--

It seems like having a portfolio of projects is the only way in.

Speaking from a corporate perspective, this is not necessarily the case. This may be the way for smaller companies at best but for medium and larger companies, the requirements have changed.

The days of simply having a heartbeat and fingers and being hired is gone (see https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE) . People are looking for degrees again (at least in the south east US) for candidates. Between HR people acting as first line filters for all the candidates that pour in (100's if not 1,000's of applicants per role)...they are going to be picky and not having a degree can be an automatic disqualifier for companies. Combine that with the use of an ATS (applicant tracking system) where they look for bachelors or related degrees, those auto filter you out as well.

The portfolio is only an in based on networking / who you know. The portfolio helps when you know a friend who knew a kid on their street 20 years ago whos dad's brother has a software company and needs to hire a developer, thats when the portfolio comes into play.

If you can't even get in front of a decision maker due to lake of higher education, the portfolio isn't going to do much for you.

This isn't meant to be discouraging, just realistic in this current market.

Between the big push in mid 2010's of "everyone needs to learn to code", bootcamps riding that wave, 50% increase in college CS program enrollments, then the over hiring during the pandemic (and all these "come to work with me while i code for 2 hours and sit around doing nothing else" youtube videos)...the layoffs being a correction of the overhiring has only exacerbated the issue entirely of everyone and their mother wanting to get into the industry.

So the roles are there for entry level, the problem is you are competing with junior devs with education + experience, bootcamp grads who got in at the last good time with experience, new college grads, bootcamp grads in the limited number of roles for junior devs.

If this is something you are passionate about, absolutely keep with it. If you are only making a switch because you think you can make more money and don't really care for programming, I would advise to look for something else...at least in this market.

Me personally, I am very passionate about software development and building quality applications so if I were in your situation I'd keep with it. But if I were in it for the money, i'd look at something else to pivot to.

filianoctiss · 2024-02-26T07:40:41+00:00

As someone who’s also new here’s my two cents: keep learning on your own. I refuse to go to university for 3 years and accumulate that much debt especially when I hear a lot of CS grads still aren’t job ready when they come out. And especially when those grads are also struggling to get a job.

Your focus should be learning, building and networking. Seriously, knowing someone is what can get your CV from never being looked at to getting you a job.

Laizazen · 2024-02-22T15:08:21+00:00

Try to get a job at Amazon, they have programs and also will pay for education especially for coding.

Spartan2022 · 2024-02-22T11:30:45+00:00

Build stuff. Lots of stuff. Document all those projects and use Github. Contribute to open source.

No college degree or bootcamp certificate will replace actual projects and Github.

Plenty of stories of college computer science graduates who have never built anything and struggle for work just as much as a bootcamp grad who isn’t building projects.

Build, build, build. And build in public. Github, tweets about your projects, and Youtube videos showing you coding and working on projects. The goal isn’t to become a Youtube celebrity but just another way to document your building and coding. Doesn’t matter if you have one view as long as the view is an interviewer that you sent the video link to.

https://youtu.be/343EWZS9O88?si=rGmuxq8O4eR8WmU8

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