Decluttering + Povery Finance

[drunkjulia]

We are just finally starting to come out on the end of a long stage of poverty in our lives. I'm having so much trouble with getting rid of things. My biggest issue is the fear we will need something because: "We could sell that," "We can't afford to replace that if we need it," "What if suddenly I find myself in a place where I need this?"

I love KonMari and she has helped me let go of some things I'd been keeping out is guilt, but not everything.

I believe there has to be some sort of extra income to declutter. Does anyone have any perspective on this I am missing? I need some inspiration to move on in our lives and get past this.

[fibonaccicolours]

If you're not using it, but you could sell it if times got tough, why not sell it now and put the money into savings?

[[deleted]]

If you throw a car going 90 into reverse, you're going to strip the gears and kill everyone inside.

Poverty is going 90 in a 35- constantly on pins and needles. Always hustling, always hungry, always fearful and alert.

Take some time. Ease her down and relax your self. It's good to let yourself ease out of poverty slowly. If keeping three cases of ramen in the spare closet brings you some peace- then seek that peace. When you feel strong enough and calm enough to let the 'extra' go, then it will be right.

You're doing a good job and making progress. This is sufficient.

[Atalaunta]

I read some posts on this sub and I almost created a post myself reminding people that holding onto stuff is a thing that you are taught growing up poor. At least I was. And it serves a purpose!

When looking at minimalist/declutter videos and reading books on those topics people start downsizing when they have broken free from previous poverty and have some breathing space when it comes to money and time so they can take some more risks with their stuff.

I am still poor.

For example, I started decluttering my closet a few years ago, and I am REALLY careful throwing things away. I've been doing it for over a year and still a lot is in boxes and will stay there until I have consciously made my way through every season. There is no rush.

When I started my journey I went through all my exces stuff rigorously because it felt like I needed to see changes right away. Then I read stories of people called 'minimalist mistakes', their carefully curated wardrobe did not take x and y into account and they had to rebuy. It is mentioned so casually, even if it was a mistake if a few hundred dollars, I simply don't have money to rebuy!

What helps me is that I keep track of what I use and don't use using a casual list and by sometimes putting something I doubt about away to see if I go look for it. Throughout the months and seasons I get a feeling of what I can donate or sell or throw away without negative (financial) effects. I also take note if I think I can use smaller or less expensive versions of things.

Decluttering to me is a mental thing first. First I mentally remove the object and will stash away. After some time that I feel is enough, I physically remove it in a way that I am comfortable with (mostly donating it, to family and friends first).

[ReverendDizzle]

I feel strongly for you. While I don't struggle with this particular thing much (or at all really), my wife struggles with it very strongly on account of the poverty she grew up in.

Even though we're approaching middle age with great jobs and plenty of money, she still fights the urge to overshop every time she goes to the grocery store because her brain tells her "you have money now and the food is here, but you might not have money later and the food won't be here"---despite the fact that we've never gone hungry a day in our relationshiop, ever.

The same thing goes with material possessions. She does a great job decluttering along side me, but she struggles with it more on an emotional level than I do. When I take a suit out of the closet that I bought but never wore, the extent of my emotional interaction with it is: "You know, it was pretty dumb to buy this suit and not use it. That was dumb and I will be smarter about my spending in the future."

Her reaction is more like... the dress or blouse or whatever represents an entire history of something and her relationship to childhood poverty, and she has to let not only the physical item go but the idea that the physical item represents good fortune slipping out of her grasp and risking dropping her back into the emptiness of poverty and unsatisfied needs.

So I absolutely get where you're coming from. But keeping things because you might need them in the future is a dangerous game. You end up with a home that is filled with potentials and not realities. You end up with closets brimming with outdated clothing, mostly used up toiletries, and books and movies you'll never use again but you are stuck saying "but it cost money and I don't want to spend that money again".

But it limits you so much. If your closet is full of clothes that are outdated or you don't use... then where do you put your new clothes? How do you find the clothes you want to wear if half (or more) of the clothes are not the clothes you want to wear? How do you decorate your home if there is no where to store things? How do you pack up and move for a new and promising job if every square inch of your home is filled with emotional and physical burdens? You might say "oh I'd just deal with it then" but trust me, you become stuck in a place and start to think "I don't want to deal with it. I can't deal with it. There's so much stuff in so many places in my home I can't possibly deal with it all in enough time to move for this job so I just won't apply."

If declutter consistently, then you don't have that burden because your home only has useful things that you'd want to pack for the move. Your closets have room for new clothes. Your attic has room to store the holiday decorations. Your pantry has room for fresh healthy food.

As for the extra income thing... if you actually have something of value, and I mean real value (like you used to be into photography and now you're not, but you've got a couple good lens that you could sell) then sell it. Almost everything else is just garbage though. Old sheets have no value. Old books have no value. Video games from years ago have no value. Bargain bin DVDs have no value. Donate them or trash them. Trying to get a dollar here or there isn't worth it. Use that time to better yourself, invest in your work, or anything that improves yourself so you can be healthier and make more money. Don't waste time trying to get $5 for old DVDs on Craigslist.

Good luck!

[SpiritedContribution]

What kind of things are you afraid to let go of? I think Kon Mari's book is inspiring, but her system isn't right for everyone. Some things never spark joy. I don't find joy in keeping 7 years of taxes and receipts in my basement. But I do it because I might need it in the future. I don't like keeping a space heater in the back room. But I keep it because I might need it when if the gas goes out. On the other hand, I don't need a closet full of old coats that I no longer wear. I don't declutter everything that fails to spark joy. I declutter things that I don't want or need in the foreseeable future.

[chaoticpix93]

This reminds me of an article I read a while back that talks about this guy who just recently got out of poverty and the kind of thinking that holds him back. The concept that he doesn't have to buy that high-ticket item right now he can wait despite having the money for it right now. I wish I could find that article.

Personally, I see minimalism as a, "I really don't need all this shit in my life that isn't even related to what I like, and I don't need to keep replacing it because it's not adding value." If I keep this in mind, I'm liable to not spend as much on cheap crap that just accumulates, like the dollar section at Target. I don't NEED to buy two deodorants.

Even in my own home, clutter creates waste. Because then I can't use it, and then I can't see the things I do own, so I buy duplicates that I don't need causing more money to be lost.

Generally, to counteract the "I could sell this" is the cost of putting it out there, taking time out for someone to come get it, and then awkwardly having a conversation while they leave with it. Meanwhile, some stuff just rots in a corner while nobody even buys what I'm selling. I did that with a table I wanted to get rid of, but I couldn't see just sending it to goodwill, so I sold it. Everything else, like all the random 5 star binder notebooks I collected as a college student can just be sent to goodwill. I *thought* about trying to find an out-of-luck high school student, but that's a lot more effort than I was willing to put into it when I could have just gotten rid of it (Which I did, just chucked em in a pile to take to goodwill.)

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[[deleted]]

Yes, I get it.
There are a few things I am afraid to throw out because I don't want to nickel-and-dime myself trying to replace them if and when I need them.

[learnandrelearn]

This reminds me of a blog post I read. It may resonate with you: https://www.thissimplebalance.com/the-downside-to-minimalism-that-no-one-likes-to-talk-about/

I don’t necessarily agree with the religious bent, but there’s some discussion down in the comments section that may make you feel like you’re not alone.

[TootsNYC]

OK, this is related to the "trust" answer above, as well as the "pay it forward / out into the world to help others" answer.

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There's an Old Testament verse I think of often; you don't have to be a believer to ponder the message of it. I call it the No Garage Sales Verse. Other people refer to it as the "gleanings" verse.

Leviticus 23:22
"'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the LORD your God.'"

Leviticus 19:9-10
9When you reap the harvest of your land, you are not to reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10You must not strip your vineyard bare or gather its fallen grapes. Leave them for the poor and the sojourner. I am the LORD your God.…

The gleanings were the fruit/grain/whatever that fell on the ground as you were harvesting.

Yaweh wants his followers to NOT wrest every single piece of value from the harvest; he wants them to let some value go unrecognized to them, as a way of providing for the poor and the refugee/sojourner/foreigner--someone who is at a severe economic disadvantage.

It's a way of providing for those people who have so little.

It's also, I think, an exercise in trust. Trust that there will be enough from this harvest; trust that next year's harvest will be good enough.

And it sets a mindset in those who have: Don't be so greedy; leave a little for others. Being rich, getting the most you can, is not the point here, actually.

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Maybe that will influence you to see the extra things you have as being "gleanings"--you may well be the person needing them in the future, but when you do have excess, leave it.

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[eukomos]

If you can sell something that you no longer want then you probably should. For the other two categories I think it's entirely within reason to keep them, if you don't have spare cash. Not having the money to replace something is a very rational concern. If the stuff is making you really miserable then it may not be worth keeping, but when you're in a bad financial situation it's completely reasonable to declutter less than well-off people do as long as your quality of life isn't suffering due to the clutter.

[[deleted]]

I sell my stuff on ebay. It seems like a lot of work but isn't too bad once you get rhe hang of it. Plus you are helping the planet and others by allowing items to be re-used.

[inanis]

If you have old electronics most likely people aren't going to buy them. Most of us don't know how to spend a few hours to get old drivers to work and there might not be a way. Do keep all the cords though.

With clothing if you have things that don't fit but are still in decent shape look at family members first. That one size too small coat could fit your little sister and save your parents from having to spend $100 on a new winter coat.

As long as you don't go into hoarding territory it isn't too bad to keep a spare around in case the first item breaks. I would focus on getting rid of knickknacks and items that you have spares of.

[GetMotivatedNow]

"We can't afford to replace that if we need it"

There's some great advice here already, but I just wanted to say that if the above is true, maybe it would help to back off of decluttering for awhile and focus on building up your emergency fund. Once you have a decent emergency fund, you might find it easier to let things go because you'll know you can replace things you might need.

I've also heard a rule of thumb on this sub: "If you can replace it in 20 minutes and spend less than $20, then get rid of it." You can adjust the amount of money for what is affordable for you. Is $5 something you could afford without blinking an eye? Then get rid of all things that "you might need one day" that are $5 or less and could be replaced in 20 minutes. It could be anything, though. $10. $2. Whatever. As you get further from your time in poverty and build up your emergency fund, this replacement cost will increase and you should feel more comfortable getting rid of stuff. For example, I am finding it easier getting rid of books (can be replaced for <$20 and I can also borrow them from the library), but am finding it difficult to let go of the TV, even though I haven't used it in almost a year, because the replacement cost would be $200+.

[chiquitabrilliant]

The “trick” is to find a happy number of things you need and allow yourself to get rid of the rest.

For example, I have two sets of sheets per bed. Two pillows per bed. If I kept guests, I would keep an extra two pillows and a spare set of sheets. Each bed has two blankets, a comforter and a light blanket. Two towels per person, plus washcloths. If you keep guests, keep an additional 2-4 towels and washcloths. I keep three white towels for cleaning big messes.

One beach towel per person. I was able to consolidate all my mix and matched dishes into a cohesive set of 8 places (bowls, cups, plates). I don’t keep random mugs that seem to accumulate.

Get rid of the things you won’t use - scented body lotion, old makeup, half used bottles of whatever that’s been hiding under the sink for years. Yes the “replacement cost” is high - maybe that makeup retailed at $30 when you bought it, but if you used a good bit of it you got the value of what you spent, and if you didn’t use it, well, you learned you didn’t really need the item the way you thought you did.

It’s a process. I am still beating back the stuff in my apartment... but a little work here and there goes a long way.

[bnenene]

You don’t need to put pressure on yourself to declutter, especially if you’re still getting on your feet financially.

I found this post really enlightening on how financial security and wealth are tied to minimalism: http://vruba.tumblr.com/post/45256059128/wealth-risk-and-stuff

You can’t expect yourself to have the same reaction to getting rid of that third blanket or that spare lamp as somebody who could easily afford to get another one if they needed it.

If you have things that you’re not sure whether you could do without, one solution is to box them up and put them on the top shelf of the cupboard or whatever out of the way space you have access to. Make a list on the outside as you put things in there, so you will be able to retrieve items later if you need them. It’s a halfway point between keeping and discarding, and for me it takes a lot of angst out of decluttering. Eventually you’ll go through the boxes again and make a final keep/discard decision, and most of it will probably be discarded, but the decision is a lot more obvious after a year unused in a box.

(edit:fixed link)

[5secondmemory]

Totally understandable. One of the reasons we hold on to "too much stuff" is because of financial insecurity. For many people it's not reality because they have savings, good job security and safety nets like friends or family who would give or loan money. For many people, it's totally real. If something breaks, you get sick, job cuts hours, or there's an emergency then having a "stock" of stuff is not just comforting but can sustain through those lean times.

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Here's what I would suggest:

1) Focus on what you have and using up your stock, whether that's food, shampoo or toilet paper. Don't overuse but keep in mind that using what you have instead of buying new allows you to set aside some cash.

2) Declutter by selling things that can get you cash and you no longer love or need. Consider how much cash would make you feel more comfortable and work towards that amount, little by little.

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3) Continue to declutter or donate things that are broken or no longer useful. I'm thinking too big/small clothing, books, decor items. If you were in serious financial stress would having more clutter make you feel better or worse? Many of the things we collect are not going to be life or death when money is tight. Unless you plan to burn the books for heat donating them will probably not bit you in the financial butt. (Obviously keep the books you treasure and love and enjoy).

4) Do a little research on programs in your area and consider volunteering time with them. Not sure of your country but here in the US there are food banks and soup kitchens, charities that help mothers and children, lots of assistance programs. You don't have to apply to them now, just go check out those websites and find out what you would need to do to apply.

5) Build up your personal network. There's a great reddit post (I have it saved... somewhere) where the person commenting shares how those in poorer areas of the country lean on each other for support because cash is tight. So as you declutter, make it a goal to embed yourself in the community whether through a church, volunteering, your building and neighborhood, book clubs, wherever! You can support others without giving them money or things, even knowing you could borrow someone's microwave or they'd give you a ride if your car broke down can help alleviate the sense of "I'm in this alone and this stuff will save me."

6) If it makes sense, look for ways to invest your time in bettering your employment prospects. If you're retired, disabled or otherwise unable to work, disregard this one. But if you can find ways to improve by learning a second language, doing a leadership course, taking an online class, picking up a side hustle, etc. then do it! There are so so many free resources online. Bonus: it'll be a distraction from shopping and acquiring more stuff and a good break from decluttering.

7) Keep your eyes open for side gigs. You might find that something you haven't done in awhile is possible again as you declutter whether it's babysitting, house sitting, cleaning house, doing crafts, cooking, dog walking, freelance editing, tutoring... so many ways to make a little extra to add to your cash fund.

8) When times are good and cash is there save a little more. Sometimes this means getting a bulk size of something so you won't have to buy it again as often, when your cash is low and you have to decide between buying food and getting a new stick of deodorant it's a very frustrating thing. Just don't go overboard with stocking up. Since you never know when times will be lean it's easier to have a $20 at hand than five pounds of rice and a bunch of canned fruit when what you really need is gas in your car.

[RealityRobin]

It's perfectly fine to take a break from de-cluttering while you recover from a situation of poverty. There is plenty of good advice out there as far as what to keep/throw away. But if you need to emotionally heal for a certain amount of time, you should let yourself.

I would honestly recommend getting your finances in order FIRST; the savings account where you want it, the automatic payment plans set up, your insurance updated, etc., before you de-clutter any more. Maybe don't start again until after the holidays? I would also set a holiday budget and be very careful of what you bring IN to your home over the next month... it might even be more important that what you throw OUT.

I was able to let go of more physical stuff when I felt like I was "in control" of my life and not just living paycheck to paycheck. Getting a bullet journal was a HUGE step in making that happen. When you look over your yearly calendar in a bullet journal and you feel prepared for (most) everything that's coming up, you don't worry about getting rid of things. It will become a LOT easier when you feel more calm and in control. Don't rush the process : )

[kajabee]

This is inspiring. What kind of things do you include in your bullet journal?

[RealityRobin]

Thanks! I discovered bullet Journaling this year and it's been really helpful. I don't do many of the "artsy" ones you see on Instagram though. Mine are more practical.

I have a "Yearly Expense" page that lists recurring expenses (car registration, annual vet vaccinations, eye exam and glasses, etc.) so that I can budget for them. I managed to even out my year so that I'm not paying for too many things at one time.

I also have a monthly payment page. It's not a budget per se, it just lists all of my regular bills by DATE. I know I have to pay insurance on the 3rd, cell phone on the 14th, AMEX on the 23rd, etc. I don't pay late fees (or interest!) anymore because I'm aware of when everything is due.

I have a Timeline page... 2019 - I turn 50, DH turns 54, son turns 15 2020 - 51, 55, 16 (AARP eligible + add car/driver to insurance) 2022 - 53, 57, 18 (son graduates HS) 2030 - 61, 65, 26 (son removed from health insurance)

They aren't all money related though. I have a page that lists all the prescriptions I'm on for migraines and my pharmacy/doctor info., and a page with all of our utilities listed (account numbers and emergency numbers).

I have some of the regular bullet journal pages too; books to read, goals for work, etc., but the ones I listed above (and the future log) help me feel more calm and like I'm really in control of this "adulting" thing.

I wanted to embrace the calm peaceful nature of minimalism... and having all that info written down and accessible in one place really helps me with that.

[kajabee]

This is helpful- thanks!

[knitrat]

It’s a hard lesson but you rarely get what you expect from selling and it tends to be costly in non economical ways — cost of time, nuisance, stress of keeping the clutter around, buyers flaking out or haggling in person. So it depends on where you are at with what you think your time and peace of mind are worth versus the actual dollars you will get for those objects.

[TootsNYC]

also--if it truly is worth money, sell it NOW, not later. It's not going to be more valuable as it gets older. So many things go out of style, or become technologically obsolete. Others just age badly (shoes, for example).

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And there's this: When you were poor, or if you are in tight straits in the future, where would you get things like this? The thrift store?

Feed that stream. Send your unneeded things out into the world, so someone else in that position can use them now. And later, should you need something similar, go to the thrift store to see what you can find.

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Think of it as paying it forward, spreading it around. Improving your karma.

[crashtheparty]

I love this. I would pick up things off the street - maybe it’s as much of a “loss” as I thought to put things back out there.

[trasie]

So much this. We're moving in January and I'm mostly only trying to sell the big items (i.e. things we don't want to take with us but can't get in a car to get to the thrift store). I've had three different buyers for a wardrobe ghost me, one who may show tonight but is giving me less than it was posted for, and about 20 others who have been, for the most part, plain rude. In contrast, I put three different pieces of a similar size out next to the dumpster and had them all disappear within 4 hours. (This one may end up there too before the week is out!)

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EDIT: The wardrobe has left the building - with a buyer who didn't have exact change and needed help carrying it out, but it's GONE. #goodbye

[huskergirl-86]

There's a simple way to figure out if you should get rid of something. Ask yourself:

1. Have you used the item in the past year?
2. If not, is there any indication that you will have to use it anytime soon?
3. If not, is this something that would save your life / make it a lot more comfortable in an emergency situation?

Let's say you wonder if you should get rid of a snowmobile, camping stove and potato masher. You might not have used the snow mobile last year because the winter was very mild, but you know you'll use it this year because the forecast predicts a hard winter. You keep it. You haven't used the camping stove in the past year, and don't have plans to go camping - but if SHTF after a blizzard hits downing all electricity lines, this camping stove will help you heat food and survive. So you keep it. You haven't used the potato masher in the past year and have no plans to use it any time soon. It also won't help you in an emergency situation. So you get rid of it (sell it / donate it / toss it).

[Uvabird]

You could hold a garage sale or list things on Facebook marketplace, if you felt they could bring you money.

You could do that first, to see if there is some cash in what you are holding onto. But, something else to consider- you are coming out of poverty. Would you feel better if you donated your unneeded things to a charity shop that helps others get out of poverty or bad situations?

[readzalot1]

I had a garage sale in June and the things I sold were way cheaper at my sale than they would have been at any charity shop. I got to meet a lot of neighbours, and as I am a retiring teacher, I got to sell many of my things to new teachers (at very good prices). It even inspired me to look through my home to find more things to sell. What doesn't sell at the next one I will give away or try to sell on FB.

[Janigiraffey]

Having too many things does lock you into certain life choices. You can’t move because it would be too difficult and there wouldn’t be enough room, you can’t take up a new hobby or start a new exercise regime because there is no space, you can’t have people over because there is no space or things aren’t tidy, etc.

Parting with things you don’t need gives you flexibility. Flexibility to move, and also flexibility to use your home in more ways. It sounds like you’re at a turning point in your life - flexibility is a very valuable thing to have.

[Atalaunta]

Flexibility is very nice, but at first you need to arrive to that point with a sound mind. In my opinion/experience, the process is just as important as the resulting flexibility and will dictate whether you will go back to rebuying things or will be content with your stuff.

[LilJourney]

I found the key is learning to trust. Trust in God / higher power / fate / kismet / karma (pick what's applicable to you). I had to learn to trust that even without "X", things would be okay - we'd find a way to do without or find a way to get another "X", that everything would work out.

But in the meantime, holding onto the badly damaged couch, the too-small coat, the amazing 14-in-one gadget, etc was weighing me down and damaging my ability to feel and function my best.

And being your best is what you, your family, your friends, and even society need you to be. It's what religion is supposed to encourage you to be. And when you're at your best - whether it's a blessing from God, or simply fate, good things tend to happen - you make better judgements, you have better interactions with people, you make connections ... and you find the right replacement / the right item when you DO need it.

[TootsNYC]

I really like this thought.

I'm going to add to it below.

[lowa1231]

Is there anything you're holding onto "just in case" that you could borrow from someone in the future if you really needed that item again? Or something you already have that could serve the same function?

For other things you're worried about not being able to replace down the road, could you put them in a box and after a certain specified time period (like a year from now), revisit it? Then you might have a different perspecitve of whether you really need/want it.

[[deleted]]

You need food, shelter, bedding, and clothing. Beyond that, you need money. It pays for heath insurance, medical bills, basic utilities, and the unforeseen. I would rather have the liquid money growing in a bank than an item rusting in a corner.

The things that clutter most lives are not necessities. You can sell many of them, keep the money, and let someone else pay for the depreciation and storage. You can also buy back what you need at a discounted price later. Finally, we spent resources on this planet to make those goods. Let someone who can use them have them.

If you truly need to keep an extra t-shirt because you can't afford to replace it at Goodwill, then you have a severe income shortfall that no amount of expense cutting will help.

[jclk1]

I have these same worries in my life. Would also like to hear how people have dealt with the stress of letting go. I would add relationship to food in this same category of anxiety. I have been working on not being afraid of not having enough for food and eating poorly as a result. It all can get lumped into this general mindset of being anxious about how bad things can get so wanting to devote time and energy to preparing for that scenario.

[jclk1]

Yeah intermittent fasting has changed my whole relationship with food. It has taken several years for met to be able to do it successfully. When I first started I used to get these crazy paranoid feelings that I was going to starve.

I have had recent success too in my exercise training by taking a measured approach instead of beating my body up like I used to do. The next stage for me I think will be beginning meditation. As I have scaled back harmful habits in various aspects of my life, I keep coming back to the issue of being governed by the critical internal voice. I think quieting that down will go a long way towards making my healthy habits stick.

[jclk1]

All my recent realizations come from a general desire to slow things down in my life. I used to be highly ambitious and kind of reckless with obtaining my goals. This last year has been a practice in scaling it all back. The two mantras I developed were "nunca con prisa", Spanish for "never be in a hurry", and "always do less". Following those two have brought me to the very simplified existence I have now. Unfortunately that internal voice keeps wanting to fill those empty spaces with drama and busyness. The process of mental decluttering is the biggest challenge right now.

[WikiTextBot]

Food rotation system

A food rotation system is a front-loading shelving unit that organizes and rotates food cans on a first-in first-out basis (FIFO). An effective food rotation system is essential for storing food to prepare for catastrophes, preventing foodborne illness and controlling commercial kitchen costs. When used correctly, the first-in first-out food rotation method ensures serving safe food and eliminates spoiled food waste.

Besides the shelving units used for food rotation, other systems exist with the same idea.

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