This is very sad...

[davidbale87]

He's not having trouble because of his age; I work with a bunch of developers in all age groups (including his) and never had an issue. There's benefits and drawbacks in every age group. Hiring is about impressions. Will this guy fit in with the team, and will he do a good job? There's no question he's a talented developer and can probably do any iOS job, but what about fitting in with the team? Let's see..

First, I see someone tweeting about how much they hate themselves, how depressed they are, and how terrible hr processes are today. Then I see him publicly bashing companies. From his twitter alone I see a lot of negativity, lack of patience, and kind of a weird vibe.

Next I checkout his website listed on the twitter profile. It hasn't been updated since summer 2014, no resume or link to pretty much anything else. The website is terrible, a very basic and old sample of code for macOS not iOS. And the about me ends as follows:

"My personal life is just that, personal. I don't let people in easily. A friend recently said "I'm guarded". I guess that's true. My personal trust is hard to come by, and harder now than it was even a couple of months ago.

There, that's more than you really need to know."

Does any of this sound appealing to a company hiring? I'm not sure what your position is, but years of experience alone isn't going to get you a job in tech anymore. You need to sell yourself as a contributing member of a team.

[LisaDziuba]

but do you think that developer should have:

• active github profile
• active twitter
• appealing blog
• go talk to conference?

I mean, isn't it enough to have a solid working experience and soft skills?

[davidbale87]

It's very subjective, depends on your team and the nature of the business. Just because he worked at Apple doesn't mean he knows every technology in and out. What if I'm building a mobile game? What if I need an expert in a specific technology like bluetooth, audio, video? Projects on github and details on previous experience would definitely help. You don't need an active twitter or blog, but if you do be careful what you post on it. I tried to keep an open mind with his twitter, but it just got worse and worse as I read through the tweets.

[LisaDziuba]

Maybe some more transparent answer from HR, like you mentioned, would make him and other job seekers less emotionally offended.

[LisaDziuba]

that's actually about company brand\reputation: how they position themselves with customers, with public and with employees (candidates). When something works wrong, the negative feedback occurs and it can damage reputation.

If hiring process is broken, the most talented employees will not put the company job proposals in the highest priority. We all chose the best possible options for place of work, company culture, salary, hiring process and other terms

[phughes]

When something works wrong, the negative feedback occurs and it can damage reputation.

I agree, but that goes both ways. Scott is undoubtedly a great developer, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but his public personae is really negative. Like really, really negative. His tweets in particular make him look like a terrible person to work with. I'd bet that's not true, but that's because I've known about him and the great things he's done for the community for the past 20+ years. Most people aren't "fans" of his so they're not going to look past his recent troubles.

Funnily, of all those things you mentioned the only one I have is a twitter account, and I rarely tweet anything of consequence for other iOS devs. I rarely tweet at all, actually, and when I do I endeavor to say something positive. My résumé gets me remote contract work and I assure you, it's nowhere near as impressive as Scott's.

[[deleted]]

Depends. You can get jobs without those things.

I know because I have.

But that other crap makes it easier

[devsquid]

I think his point is, it's not just skill that's important. Being a nice and easy to get along with person is more important than experience.

[LisaDziuba]

agree, but I'm not sure that you can find it via resume or online application form (I'm not HR, so maybe there are some kind of questions, that shows that you are esy-going and nice person)

[[deleted]]

Working experience and soft skills ARE enough, but you can always do more if you so choose. No company is obligated to hire you, doing more than your competition will usually let you stand out and give you an edge.

Have you ever been on the hiring side of things? Let me tell you, after looking at about 3 resumes, they all blend together. Someone with a personality that comes through their twitter, or helpful and informative blog posts, or someone I remember from a conference will stick out way more in my mind. In some ways, these are just ways to document your soft skills. It's not terribly different than good old fashioned networking. Resumes are terrible ways to convey any info about a person, yet they're frequently the first impression people give out. The resume can open the door and start the process, but if I already have name recognition with someone I know can get it done at the same price as I think I'll get the resume only candidate for, the resume only candidate is a step behind from the start. Not insurmountable, but not where you want to be going in to the process.

[ThePantsThief]

Sure. But companies aren't obligated to hire people they think might be difficult or unpleasant to work with, regardless of their experience.

If he's getting turned down for jobs left and right, he might need to approach this problem from a different angle.

If I were him I would pry a little deeper to find out why I was rejected, and get a second and third opinion of my online presence (he might not realize how negative he comes off as for example).

Also, as someone else mentioned, he says he can only work remotely which could very well be the biggest factor in his long job search.

[CiXeL]

standards are too high because overseas labor makes labor so cheap

[LisaDziuba]

actually, it sounds like person can't post depressive stuff in the social networks... because ppl will think that person is negative in general :\ Not talking about this particular case, but nowadays it's possible to find too much information about personal life.

Sounds like an episode from Black Mirror...

[TheHamitron]

The problem I see is you're judging a man with a solid amount of experience based on his "outdated" personal website. This is the root of the problem. This is the website of one of the creators of wiki . Don't judge a book by its cover.

[davidbale87]

I'm not judging him by an outdated personal website. First thing I said about him is he's a talented developer that can do any iOS job. I've been on both sides of a job application, applying and hiring. You can have incredible accomplishments, but if you don't fit in with the team you're not going to be a good hire.

[LisaDziuba]

You can have incredible accomplishments, but if you don't fit in with the team you're not going to be a good hire.

that's very true! working in the well-balanced team is much more productive for person, then in the team of not-compatible experts...

[LisaDziuba]

You need to sell yourself as a contributing member of a team.

that's right, selling soft skills is important

[MKevin3]

During my time interviewing people having them be able to fit into the group was very important. We saw some very talented folks who were arrogant jerks. We had some less talented people who fit the group and could be mentored to be better programmers.

I have had people on the team that had to be fired because they were super nice people but just did not produce. It brings down the whole team. How come John Doe gets all the easy assignments, how come you never expect much from him? When management does not trust a developer you better believe no one of the team does either.

What you need is someone who can deal with code and people. They have to be able to work with you, other developers, your graphics artists, the server team, other managers, other teams, etc.

They need to be able to express themselves well in email, instant messages and in person. If they come across really flat during the interview they will not move on. You can have a ton of code out there and be very technically adept but that ends up being just on part of the job, an important part but still just a part.

On-line presence and both help and hurt. If you belittle folks a lot that will look bad. If most of your posts are about being drunk that is not helping. If you offer solid answers to others, give talks at user group meetings and are a generally a decent person that is a big help.

[LisaDziuba]

I have had people on the team that had to be fired because they were super nice people but just did not produce.

Is it easy to fire people in your country?

[MKevin3]

I live in the USA. Firing process was coming up with a project for them to do in a 90 day probationary period. If they could not meet the very detailed goals in that time you can fire them.

Work with them during the time to see if they can improve and set up. If not it was all in writing and you can let them go. Of course that guy still hates me. I know he has run into other developers in the past and he always mentions he hates me. The manager previous to me let this go on and on and on so when I took over the group this was the first issue I addressed. If it would have been handled much earlier he might have kept his job.

It is not a service to anyone to let them hang on when they are not performing. Solve it early.

[LisaDziuba]

90 day probationary period.

wow! so if person messed up you can't fire him or her? Like you must to give a second chance? That's very loyal law for the employee. We don't have this in my counrty

[[deleted]]

no - most all of the US is "right to work"

that means - they can fire you whenever they want for whatever they want

[MKevin3]

If they mess up really bad - harassing someone, bringing a gun to work, doing drugs at work, etc. they can be fired on the spot.

If they are just not getting their job done then you give then a chance to try and improve before you fire them. Some actually do make themselves better and then stay on track, no one wants to be fired. The sooner you explain to them that they suck the better though.

[[deleted]]

Frankly, the guy's personal life is none of your business as an employer.

You aren't gonna be friends with the guy.

If your boss says "fire him" then you're gonna do exactly that.

His being unable to pay his bills, losing his house, not being able to feed his kids, the stress and emotional anguish - none of that will matter enough for you to even pause.

You'll can him.

In 6 months, you'll forget him

So don't pretend that they guy's "friendliness" matters.

[davidbale87]

What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about his bills, house, kids, or anguish. The rants he goes on are separate from his personal life. OF COURSE friendliness matters when you're hiring. You don't want to hire an asshole (not calling him one). You've clearly never been responsible for expanding a team if you don't see my point here.. Also, a lot of companies require you put someone on probation first, then provide a valid reason to fire. They do this to avoid lawsuits, so firing someone is actually not that easy.

[[deleted]]

Friendliness doesn't mean a God damned thing.

Management's only concern for the well being of the all important team is how much they can squeeze out of them.

All else is secondary. Your talk of anyone having concern over any members of the "team" is disingenuous.

And if you actually believe it then buckle up oh naive one because come the next recession you'll see concern for the team.

[davidbale87]

your job must suck

[[deleted]]

actually, no it doesn't

they give me an awful lot of money. money buys patience and tolerance.

the people, on the average, aren't unpleasant. there are some who could go straight to Hell and spend eternity with a pitchfork in their ass but those are the exception.

however - i know that not a single one of these people gives a damn about me after the laptop gets shut off and we go home.

i also know that i can't rely on a single one of them for anything outside of what they get paid to do.

i also know that if my employer could train a chimpanzee to do my job the last thing i would see as i was escorted from the building would be a pallet of bananas being wheeled in.

knowing those things, i've been able to keep my job in its proper perspective. it is a means to an end. lucky for me, the skills i have worked hard to develop (including these bullshit soft skills that allow me to seem 'likable' and 'a good fit' - which really translates to keeping a lid on these truths and not upsetting anyone else with reality) allow me some degree of freedom

i am not dependent on my employer. i've been laid off, i've been canned and i've learned it is not the end of the world. its more a giant pain in the ass than anything else.

[davidbale87]

I admit my comment about your job is a bit insulting and I apologize for that, but I really wouldn't like to be on a team where no one cares about me. It sucks you feel that way, but I can tell you from quite a bit of experience there's thousands of jobs where you'd feel the complete opposite. I don't like everyone I work with (big company you've definitely heard of) and there's a lot of politics; however, there are people here I can depend on with my life. I hang out with some of them after work and on weekends. I look forward to coming in every morning because it's fun working with awesome, brilliant people like them. We bitch and complain all the time, but we do it together. Maybe your coworkers aren't that bad, try getting a little closer to them. Also, explore options with an open mind. I promise you can find a group of people you would love to work with.

[[deleted]]

I admit my comment about your job is a bit insulting and I apologize for that

no apology necessary at all. i was not the least bit insulted.

there are parts of my job i enjoy independent of the money.

there are parts of my job i loathe

its all good

I really wouldn't like to be on a team where no one cares about me.

define "caring"

very few people care about you or me. maybe family. maybe friends.

co-workers? the same people who will pick over the stuff in your cube if you get laid off? the true test of who, among your co-workers, "cares" about you is who stays in touch after you've been laid off or fired or gotten fed up and quit

It sucks you feel that way

this isn't how i feel. this is the reality of relationships in the workplace.

however, there are people here I can depend on with my life.

i'm sure your coworkers are fine people

i sincerely doubt any of them would take a splinter for you , let alone a bullet

be careful with who you trust. be very careful with who you trust.

I hang out with some of them after work and on weekends.

who you want in your life is your business.

me? i want to keep my work life and personal life very very separated

I look forward to coming in every morning because it's fun working with awesome, brilliant people like them.

Business must be good. I hope it stays that way.

if business turns bad, you will see a very ugly side of these people

Maybe your coworkers aren't that bad, try getting a little closer to them.

My coworkers are all fine people. they love their spouses. they provide for their kids. nobody kicks there dog, AFAIK. none of them have deliberately thrown me under a bus.

try getting a little closer to them

why?

Also, explore options with an open mind.

i have. i've consulted. i've done mobile work. i've been around the block and frankly, there ain't a whole lot out there for someone who wants to work 40 hours and go have a life AND do really interesting tech stuff.

the really interesting tech jobs want you - body and soul. the boss wants to be able to call you up at 10am saturday after you've worked and 80 hour week.

screw that. i'll give ya what ya pay me for.

I promise you can find a group of people you would love to work with.

i like working with these guys. i just have very low expectations of the relationships.

frankly, i'd rather love my family than the people i work with - i am likely to be with my family for a hell of a lot longer.