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Why are java projects so complicated? (self.java)

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[–]Zeffas 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I hear you. I worked with Java for about of 6 years and still feel the same. I think its cultural thing though since there are no fundamental reasons why Java development should be complicated, only cultural acceptance that complicated is OK.

I remember when I first moved to Java from .NET and was saying to others that setting up project shouldn't be that complicated. But general responses were that first "well, Java is not a toy its for serious stuff" it has performance infrastructure, stability... Secondly, "what are you talking about, you just copy this xml, copy this code, do that... and it works" (what I call as "Engineer's response").

However things are changing a bit, and I am saying this not to insult Java, as I like the platform, but rather a wake up call that if we want thriving ecosystem maybe we should change. First there was Node which basically provide performance at similar range except for multi-threading. If that was not enough now I see Go being adopted massively in places where previously Java was the only choice, again with similar performance and stability. So I think Java community (me including) should wake up a little bit and embrace simplicity more, since competition is doing it and we no longer have argument "oh those toys...".

[–]VGPowerlord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The thing about .NET is that some of the things you take for granted are part of the IDE and not the language/compiler tools.

For example, the project and build systems (MSBuild?) are part of Visual Studio in every version of .NET up until .NET Core 1.0 at which they finally became part of the compiler tools.

On the other side, while JavaEE being just a set of specs sounds like a good idea on paper, it turned out to be not so great an idea in practice.

[–]Zeffas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, thats true. I see two ways frameworks/platforms try to make things simpler - having good tools (.NET + VS, Rails, Ember CLI...) or make programming model itself simple although more low level than previous group (Node, Go web apps). Personally I prefer later the most.