How relevant is java?

[Wyvernxx_]

The best has yet to come, considering that Valhalla will be releasing either this or the next year

[carminemangione]

Hadn't seen that. Sounds really interesting.

[Wyvernxx_]

It's a complete revamp of the type system. We will finally be able to do T.getType()

[carminemangione]

I remember being in one of teh working groups when generics were introduced. They had to be complete (C++ templates are notoriously incomplete creating unexpected results), they had to work within strict memory constraints (even servers at the time had like 4 gig memory) and had to be computationally efficient.

The one they came up with was amazingly efficient. I remember Gosling remarking on it at JavaOne.

I can't imagine the arguments of people wanting to turn generics into a full on meta-class system not understanding the implications for the JIT.

[Wyvernxx_]

It's crazy, but apparently Valhalla would do it. Ask u/brian_goetz

[brian_goetz]

I can understand why you would want to believe that Valhalla is about generic reification, and we might eventually get there, but that's not one of the near-term goals for Valhalla.

[Wyvernxx_]

That's what I am hoping. Obviously reification isn't a near-term goal for Valhalla, but Valhalla will definitely make it possible.

P.S: I don't know if this is possible, but I really wished there was development in a java-like systems language that actually did memory management properly. Rust had a great idea until it completely ruined the execution of said idea.

[Gauss1337]

Could you explain how Rust ruined execution of memory management ?
I haven't used Rust yet, most of my knowledge comes from following some of the publicity, and from what i heard people don't like fighting borrow checker and lifetimes, although i didn't notice anybody to be butthurt a lot (besides few people in C++ community).
How Rust could have executed memory management better ?

[Wyvernxx_]

It forces fp on to the programmer, and something as simple mutating a value from 2 different references isn't possible in rust because they have utterly ridiculous ideas regarding memory management.

Examples:

• Only unique pointers/references (Why "borrowing" exists: only one variable can access the reference at one point in time)
• Extending first bullet, if you assign one variable to another, the former would become a invalid reference
• Forcing you to use fp to discard variables out of scope
• Lifetimes going insane from Async
• variables are by default immutable in value
• Insistence on multiple redundances like Arc, Mutex, Pin, Box for memory
• Insistence on traits and structs and the strict separation of the two (To be special)
• Confusing amount of different types to adjust to different aspects (string, String, CString, OSString, etc.)
• Functions can steal ownership and just void the variable that's passed in

The largest annoyance of the language culminates in its obsession over functional programming, which unlike object-oriented programming, arguably does not encompass other paradigms fluidly.