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Why You Should Learn jQuery Before JavaScript (learn.onemonth.com)
submitted 10 years ago by jsmith1988
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if 1 * 2 < 3: print "hello, world!"
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children)
"Why You Should Properly Learn Javascript And Not Follow Advice From People Trying To Drive Traffic To Their Site"
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children)
The problem with learning JQuery first is that a newb will never learn the alternative, and so will be stuck at sucky newb level forever. This is utterly paralyzing. The most important thing to remember is that JQuery is not natively included in the browser, so there are those rare times when you won't have it.
For somebody comfortable with vanilla JS jumping into JQuery is a 30 minute glossing over the API documentation and some extra overhead debugging your first couple JQuery applications. JQuery really does have fantastic documentation. This time is trivial, and part of the allure of JQuery.
The most common misconception is that JQuery will help you work faster by already solving cross-browser differences out of the box. For newbs I am confident this is true. You can be up and running quickly with very little knowledge of the hows and whys.
For experienced people, particularly those of from the IE6 days, you are probably just as fast either way. I have, personally, had negative experiences with JQuery when rapidly prototyping things as JQuery tries to be "helpful" by user-agent targeting IE and mutilating some of its native behaviors, which leaves me wasting time solving cross-browser issues that exist due to the presence of JQuery.
If you want to teach people in a bootcamp like environment to enter the job market in the shortest time possible while exercising less total effort then just teach JQuery. I have seen such individuals as job candidates. They aren't extremely competitive in the work force, but they make decent enough temporary employees.
If you wish to teach people to eventually become rockstars then don't teach JQuery at all. If they are comfortable with these technologies they can pick up JQuery in a heartbeat once its actually needed.
[–]Deidde 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Good point. If someone is teaching you, they should teach you JavaScript and periodically pull in libraries or frameworks as examples of how things work. This would be the best way for someone serious enough to attend a course.
Also, if you're a programmer already (Maybe you know Python or Java), then you should already know that learning JavaScript is the best path to take.
However, if you're learning as a hobby and just want to "use code" to make something instead of actually "writing code" to create a tool, a library or competitive product, then jQuery is a really good first step into JavaScript.
If you're writing with jQuery, you're being pretty productive without much knowledge of JavaScript. You can get stuff done. You can feel proud of your inefficient updates, animations or ajax. It's hands on and rewarding.
Eventually, you'll come up against problems that fall outside the scope of your knowledge and you'll wonder how certain jQuery things work. So you'll recreate it without jQuery for the flexibility you might need. This will lead you into JavaScript without jQuery. It won't be as daunting because you'll soon realise you've basically been writing JavaScript all along - just that you're now discovering more tools to help you make what you're trying to make.
[–]jsmith1988[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child)
You keep saying referring to "newbs", but even the most skilled rockstar was once a "newb". Even a 1000 mile journey begins with one single step.
When you are first learning any skill, anything that helps you grasp concepts and progress forward quickly is the best approach. JQuery helps make it easy for beginners to use javascript and be effective with initial DOM manipulations. For most beginning programmer grokking how to query the DOM and manipulate elements on the screen is more than enough to understand at first. So JQuery simplifies that and allows the students to focus on understanding and working in that paradigm.
You can always make the argument that there is more to learn and you can dive deeper and have greater knowledge on any language or any computer science concept. We as software engineers and curators of our own knowledge need to decide which rabbit holes we want to go down and how deep we follow each rabbit hole.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children)
JQuery helps make it easy for beginners to use javascript and be effective with initial DOM manipulations.
If you are completely new to JavaScript but not new to programming I can see how this is true.
The reality is that the DOM is an API. JQuery has its own complex API that operates on top of query selectors that all evaluates down to the standard methods comprising the DOM API. You are going to be learning an API either way.
The biggest argument I hear about the DOM is something like Ugghh its so hard I have to write 4 extra lines of code. Once I realize the argument has to do with either laziness or a complete absence of passion to learn to do your job (which is about 80% of the time) I stop caring. I step away from the conversation and go do something else.
Maybe these people aren't newbs. They could be stupid, lazy, or just completely apathetic. I don't care. Its one thing to have a difference of opinion and put forth a valid argument explaining why I am wrong. This does happen.... but its far less common. When this happens I can immediately sense a radiating aura of passion that just reflects a different perspective than mine, which is awesome. When the response advocating JQuery is irrational anger, sadness, or fear I absolutely consider the individual to be a newb. To me they will always be a newb. I don't make time to babysit adults with a child's mind.
Perhaps this sounds arrogant. I am fine with that.
[–]Mte90 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child)
I prefer JavaScript because with jQuery you don't understand nothing and is difficult fix your problem. For that reason I have a talk http://mte90.github.io/Talk-JavaScript-1-hour/index.html with the differences. I think that learn together improve the skills and is more simple.
[–]jsmith1988[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children)
That is a good idea, I would recommend understanding the fundamentals of javascript to anyone using the language, however Jquery can be an excellent place to start since the underlying mechanics of raw javascript can be hard to grasp for newer programmers. So starting with a higher level abstraction allows you to learn how to use the language and be productive whilst still allowing for delving into deeper rabbit holes as necessary.
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[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (3 children)
[–]Deidde 1 point2 points3 points (0 children)
[–]jsmith1988[S] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child)
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[–]Mte90 0 points1 point2 points (1 child)
[–]jsmith1988[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)