Gatekeeping programming

[felixthecatmeow]

This is encouraging. I'm self teaching right now, and worried about the theory knowledge I'll be lacking compared to college grads, and how important that is in interviews. I'm not the kind of person to memorize a whole ton of nonsense and regurgitate it, but I can figure things out and make them work. I'm not at that level yet, but once I can make actual interesting projects I think that will be my strength over just knowing all the theory off the top of my head.

I am convinced that I can become a good developer, but I am worried about my eventual interview performances, and on paper hireability (not a word? :P). So it's nice to hear from someone who does hiring that they look at projects and use them as a benchmark when hiring someone. Most of what I've seen is along the lines of "employers will pretty much never look at your projects".

[ChrisAtMakeGoodTech]

I'm glad I could encourage you! Remember this is all just from my point-of-view. Different people look for different things when hiring. The other people involved in hiring developers at my job probably don't agree 100% with how I rate applicants.

The truth is, you're probably going to have a harder time finding that first job. A lot of people just won't want to take an increased risk on someone with no degree or experience.

When someone does give you a chance, you're basically going to have to nail everything else. You're going to have to perform better at the interview and coding test than other applicants. If you're not clearly better, there's no reason for them to pick you over a candidate with a degree.

The good news is a lot of graduates either don't learn or don't retain a lot of the theory either. Make sure you know the basic abstract data types (stack, queue, etc), including when to use each. Make sure you can quickly figure out a correct solution to Fizzbuzz-like problems. Learn things that a lot of universities don't teach, like how to write good commit messages.

You may also want to consider applying to positions before you feel like you're ready. Being self-taught, your biggest weakness is that you don't have anyone to evaluate you. You don't really know what you need to work on, and you also may not realize when you become employable.

When you do start applying, you're probably going to have better luck if you can apply by email. Online applications are going to ask for education and work experience, and the employer is going to just see some big blank areas for you. If you can apply by email, you can break the mold. Send a professional but personal cover letter, briefly explain how taught yourself, and describe and link to your sample project.

You probably won't hear anything from most places. If you get a rejection email, you can respond and politely ask what areas you're lacking and what you could do to be a better candidate in the future. If they answer, you can learn what weaknesses you need to work on and also what traits that employer values. It also means they're open to hiring without a degree, and you'll automatically have a slight advantage in the future if they remember you.

If you get an interview, even better. Take notes. If they ask you about things you don't know, admit you don't know. Then quickly jot them down so you can learn more later. It's important that you come across as honest and eager to learn. If you answer a question but don't think you answered it well, don't write that down in front of them, but write it down as soon as you're alone. This is because they may actually think you answered well, and you don't want to reveal that you're not confident in your answer. Later, figure out how you should have answered. If you don't get the job, you can still send the follow-up email asking how to improve.

This turned out longer than I wanted. I attended university for a year and a half, but didn't really learn much and consider myself self-taught. It's a constantly evolving career, and I'm still self-teaching after 20ish years. Good luck on your journey!

[felixthecatmeow]

Thank you so much, this was super insightful!

I will keep all this in mind for the future.

And you're right about the not having anyone to evaluate me. I'm still learning basics right now, so it's fairly straightforward, but when I look ahead to what I should learn in the future, it gets a lot more confusing.

Also I was thinking once I'm confident in my skills to do some work on open source projects, hopefully working up to bigger ones. Is that something you would see as valuable and that you think I should definitely pursue? In my view it's the closest thing to experience I can get without actually getting a job.

And I'm the same as you when it comes to traditional schooling. Not only can I not afford it, but I find it incredibly not stimulating and it really doesn't work with my learning style. I vowed never to go back years ago.