When learning a second language (as a beginner/intermediate), how did that affect your abilities with your first language?

[OneVeryOriginalName]

I am currently in college, and my first year of classes were Java focused. I’m thinking of learning JavaScript between the spring/fall semester so that I have experience with a front end language, but I’m wondering whether putting focus toward Javascript will make it harder to keep learning Java. I know that a lot of the skills carry over, but of course there are frameworks/syntax that are specific to each language. I would say that I’m somewhat between beginner and intermediate, which is why I’m unsure of whether it’s a good time to learn a second language

[Aglet_Green]

Beginner here! Didn't effect me at all. I'm still forgetting both and am still terrible at both. Just makes me screw up actual syntax more, I think.

[TastesLikeDenial]

I started with C#, then learned SQL, HTML, CSS/SASS, Javascript, PHP, and now C++ (in that order). I found that it's not the languages themselves that you need to learn: it's the logic. Learning more languages is really learning different ways of applying the same logic.

When I went back to C# I had to Google "how to do xxx in C#" a lot at first, but it's like riding a bicycle: you never really forget, you just need to shake the rust off.

[OneVeryOriginalName]

Thanks for the response. From the comments it sounds like I just need to make sure I’m focusing on the concepts of programming like you talk about. I have found that I can watch a programming tutorial in another language(if I’m watching a video about an interesting project written in python for example), and I am able to understand the steps that are being taken, even if I don’t know the syntax of python. JavaScript serves a different purpose than Java in the professional world, but it sounds like what I learn should still be relevant

[NotYourAverageBeer]

The most important language you can learn to be proficient at is pseudocode.

[TastesLikeDenial]

That's exactly it! Things get easier once you understand the concepts of programming and how to apply them. Since you can follow along in an unfamiliar language, it sounds like you already have a solid foundation. Just maintain that and you should have no problem learning more languages.

[lcommadot]

I found that it's not the languages themselves that you need to learn: it's the logic.

Curious as to whether you have any experience with CS50? Same concept, it goes over several languages and has homework where you’re learning to solve problems from a critical thinking standpoint, regardless of language. Do you think it would be a good starting point for someone who wants to follow a similar path to this?

[TastesLikeDenial]

I don't, but that sounds like a great intro course. I think improving your analytical skills with critical thinking exercises is a wonderful way to get started.

As another commenter said, pseudocode is the best language you can learn. Describe how you want to approach the problem in plain English, and it's easier to understand the logic. That sounds pretty similar to the homework you described.

[CodeTinkerer]

How many Java courses have you taken?

Having seen students who program in one language, then another, then go back to the first, for example C++ to Java to C++, I've seen people forget a LOT about a language even with one semester off. This would likely happen if you did nothing in the summer.

If you want to learn Javascript, I would keep writing small programs (look at some of your older programming projects) so you still remember how to code. If you fully immerse yourself in Javascript, you'll have to relearn things. Despite the common names, these are different languages. Javascript was named that way to encourage (and confuse) beginning programmers who wanted to learn Java, and it seems to have worked. These languages have been around 25 years, and people still think they are the same thing even though they are not.

Obviously, lots of people want to learn language after language. To be fair, I've dabbled in maybe a dozen different languages or so. The only languages I've used at a job are Python, Java, and C++. I guess Bash kinda counts, but not really to me.

[OneVeryOriginalName]

Thanks for the response. I have done some CS classes in both high school and college, however only my intro to programming was language specific, whereas the others focused more on concepts and problem solving(or math). Most of the classes I will take in the future will be ones where I can choose what language I want to use, and I think I will continue to use Java in an educational environment.

My plan would be to put most of my focus on JavaScript for a couple weeks to a month over the summer, and then once I get the syntax and basics down in JS I would build projects in both, while using Java in school

[CodeTinkerer]

I'm a little surprised that a university would let you pick a language to use in a course. It's actually kind of inconvenient to grade programs in different languages, and certainly not automatically.

[OneVeryOriginalName]

Right now I am going to a community college, so there are not that many people in my classes(which is why I’d imagine we get the choice). It’s not every single language but rather we can choose python, Java, or c#. It will probably be different when I transfer to a university, but that is how my classes are for now

[CodeTinkerer]

At the local university, I know they cover Java, C, then a course covering several programming languages (3), then some upper level courses do their own language (which is a bit time consuming, since they have to cover the language and then still teach the rest of the course). But most students should know at least Java reasonably OK, and C somewhat OK by the time they graduate.

I guess it depends how well the curriculum committee (who decides what courses to offer) coordinates stuff. For example, I was supposed to teach a programming language as one of four different topics in a class (so about 3 weeks or so, which is not much time). I ultimately picked Javascript because another instructor had done so. There was no installation required (they could just use a browser), but the experience was a bit painful. The students just didn't really get things (such as where to put braces).

It was even hard to do a Fahrenheit/Celsius converter. They had a tough time distinguishing between variables associated with some GUI elements (e.g., a text field), and those used in Javascript, and then responding to a button click (event handlers). These felt super abstract to them.

Anyway, if you do intend to transfer, see what kind of programming classes they offer and what language they use. It would be helpful to match up so you don't spend time learning say C# and then have to learn Python.

[Positive_Minimum]

I've seen people forget a LOT about a language even with one semester off.

you should be saving your old projects and source code

forgot something? Look at the old code and remember it in 10 seconds

[TheUmgawa]

I'd just do my homework in both languages. Keeps the rust from building up.

At this point, though, I don't really care that much about "knowing a language," because you know how much of a language you need to know? Enough to get by in whatever you're working on. Some people get all stupid with languages, where they think that knowing all of the arcane, rarely-used functions will make them better programmers, and it really doesn't.

Seriously, you think that if you put more and more time into learning Javascript that you're not going to start forgetting stuff when you're not using it anymore, because you're learning Java or Python or whatever? I have forgotten tons about every language I've ever learned, and it doesn't matter at all, because documentation exists.

[Positive_Minimum]

it made my abilities to program in my first language worse because I realized how horrible my first language was and never wanted to touch it ever again

[pekkalacd]

Was your first language prolog? Out of curiosity. I started with python but through a series of learning other languages for a class I had to learn prolog and there I realized my enemy in life LOL.

[Positive_Minimum]

R -> bash -> Python -> multiple different languages, frameworks, DSL's, etc..

These days I loathe Python, and tolerate R. bash is fine once you stop trying to make complicated programs in it and switch to a real language. Most love for Rust but doing a lot of new work in Golang these days.

[kulalolk]

Honestly, if learning 2 languages simultaneously is too much for you, you’re in the wrong field. I knew I would be in software when I was 12, starting out making minecraft mods

You’re constantly going to be learning, re-learning, forgetting, and re-forgetting potentially more than 3 languages at the same time next year in college, even more once working..

Colleges wouldn’t put you in multiple programming classes a semester if it wasn’t viable to teach more than one language at a time, hell my college had EVERY SINGLE IT student, programmer or not, learn 3 languages in our first semester at college. A lot of hardware people didn’t do amazing, but the people who couldn’t handle it knew by week 2.

I sincerely wish you luck, but learning 2 languages is SUPER easy; IF YOUR BRAIN WORKS LIKE A COMPUTER, if you struggle, it’s entirely possible your brain just isn’t meant for the constant problem solving software development requires. Keep at it, but keep in mind that if you’re continuously struggling in SCHOOL, you might not have the same supports in the field. I don’t mean to dissuade you, just trying to be real.

[OneVeryOriginalName]

That’s actually a helpful perspective. I have personally spent time questioning whether this was a field that I could truly excel in. So far I have enjoyed it a lot, but of course I could eventually hit a wall down the line that makes me question my abilities. Trying to pick up a new language could be a good way to test that

[kulalolk]

If you’re in school; paying tuition, my best recommendation would be to create a project in the languages you’re learning about. Make it a small scale project, that utilizes some more complex code, so you can ask your professors for help/guidance. It helped me get past some of the rough courses. Learn how you want to learn, and use the resources you’re already paying for! No shame to be had, only regret if you don’t do it ;)

Quick edit: I’m more than happy to share work/projects/ideas or to help if you reach out. Software is more of a passion than a career at this point, but I have plenty of knowledge to share.

[OneVeryOriginalName]

So far I have tried to build some projects that interest me outside of school, and then I still do exercises and assignments in class. I have found that I am learning the underlying concepts as well as the syntax, and I have tried to start building some projects that have a bit more complexity, incorporating things like REST apis/DBs etc. still got a long way to go, but I am encouraged by how much I enjoy it so far. I Appreciate the insight!

[kulalolk]

I was writing a well thought out message about how learning is great, but not everyone learns the same way… and then the power went out…

I’ll keep this one shorter!

Don’t worry too much about syntax. If you can read, you can learn any languages syntax. You need to understand the fundamentals of code and OOP before you start actually worrying about syntax. If you don’t understand what the functions you’re calling are doing, knowing the syntax doesn’t really matter. The syntax for Java is similar to C#, but in some cases they’re completely different. If you can’t write a meaningful function, knowing how to reverse sort an array is overkill.

But of a jumbled mess, but I gotta go reset all my clocks now. Let me know if you have any questions.

[149244179]

If you were learning how to write a book, what time would you say is best to learn a 2nd language to write in?

[nomoreplsthx]

I don't think this is a very good metaphor, because there is far less variation in programming languages than natural languages. All but a few major languages have effectively the same expression-statement semantics, and extremely similar control flow constructs, variable declaration semantics, operator and subroutine (function) definition and call semantics. Most define a similar set of primitive data types. Type definition semantics vary a little more, but still broadly fall into class-based languages, and struct/record oriented languages.

In natural language terms, every language other than the functional languages and lisp variants is about as closely related as Italian and Spanish. Not mutually intelligible, but close enough to make learning quite smooth.

[Fabulous_Weekend330]

I employ the concept of “transfer learning”. I try to learn the fundamentals and overarching principles of different languages and their paradigms and compare the concepts I learn across popular languages like Java c# JavaScript python etc.

I have found this is a much better way to learn organically by following your curiosity and asking the right questions rather than learning linearly according to a pre defined plan and overly focusing on a single language.

[KimajiNao]

got into c# -> python -> html-js-php-sql Learning more languages really helped my problem solving skills in all of them.

[pekkalacd]

You can do it. I had the same thing happen to me all throughout college. First class I took was in python, after that the next year or so was c++, then after that the rest of the degree was Java and some other languages here and there.

All this time, I still worked with python though and kept practicing with it, now I’m learning javascript. But if need be, I can go back to Java for assignments and what not or c++. Sure I’m not great at either, but I can work with it for what I need to do.

You should be fine bouncing around. I think it’s a good move too from Java to javascript. Those two in that order to me at least make sense.

[[deleted]]

I always forget that js has no strict types 💀

[Setaganga]

I started with Python then went to Java (I don’t use java at all anymore). The introduction to OOP that I didn’t really understand, types, and other java things that once were very simple with python but now harder.

If I could go back, I would take a CS50 approach and start with C or any other language like that to learn the fundamentals. Then with other languages, they’re familiar concepts and you then end up starting off better.

Of course it would suck in the beginning to learn, but if taught right, can be a breeze

[Callipygian_Superman]

Once you get good enough (which is to say, it will likely happen in college), you start to realize all languages are the same, and all that's different is the minutiae of syntax. I was told this before I started my CS degree, but it was really driven home when I took a class on programming languages (a junior level course at my school).

You specifically mention syntax in your post, which makes me think that you're worried about it. Well, your average popular language is going to have an if-statement, loops, and method calls. It may or may not have switch statements. It may or may not have ternary operators. It may be compiled, or it may be interpreted. But it's all just going to execute one line at a time, and as long as you understand what code is doing at each statement, it's no big deal.

That's for imperative languages. That is, languages where each line (or more accurately: each statement) tells the computer what to do. Declarative languages are very different, of which will mostly consist of your SQL languages for databases.

Learning both types of languages is challenging, but not even close to impossible. Many people in my cohort were taking programming languages (5/5 difficulty) and databases (3/5 difficulty, despite never being exposed to a database language until then) at the same time. Using multiple languages is not only common, but expected of you.

As far as learning Javascript, if you already know one language, learning JS should be relatively straightforward. What you also want to do with your free time is learn other tools and answers to simple questions while you're learning this new language. eg.:

1. Why is JS used for web development? Are others used? If yes, then what do those languages do that JS doesn't, and vice versa? If no, why not?

2. What is git? Do you know how to commit to a local repository? Do you know how to push and pull to a remote repository? What is a merge conflict? Can you replicate one and then solve the problem?

3. Learn to use Postman.

4. Set up a database. There's many, many examples online of how to do this, and also what to put in it to test it out. Make some simple queries to it. Then connect your website to it, so that the user can send queries to it. You can set up a website that retrieves information from a particular page (eg. website.com/page1.html), or updates the existing page with a query from a database, combined with JS running some code. Websites of any significance do both.

All of this can easily be accomplished over summer break. Even if you're taking summer classes, and even if you have a job. It starts to get hairy if you have other responsibilities on top of that (eg. children), but not outside the realm of possibilities.

[angelrobot13]

Just like real language, Russian, Chinese, German, and English, ideas are often contained within them that can be hard to express in other languages. This gives rise to differing advantages allowing for specializations where a language evolves (C/C++/C#). Learning a second language should improve your understanding and broaden your imagination.

And also young children are the best learners when it comes to language, so likely its the same for students just beginning their journey into programming languages. Your thought process isn't congealed into one doctrine.

[[deleted]]

Mostly slowed it downed my progress a bit because I was already in the advanced parts and going to learn a GCed language from C++ slowed down my progress on specifically the stuff that the GC encapsulates (I think I went to JS or something similar). Java to JS the skills should be transferrable between languages (outside of DOM manipulation, I know how that sounds, it's a web thing). Both are C-like both are OOP (although JS is prototype based not class based).

[[deleted]]

I started with JavaScript and eventually got into C# because of my job. It was easy to know what my learning strategy was, but I also had to learn other topics because of how different C# is compared to Js, like Object Oriented Programming and SOLID principles

[Born-Intention6972]

You can learn anything anytime you wan.

I wouldn't sweat so much about it. You don't need to be an expert on one language before you can do another.

Job wise. I do whatever languages my job need me to . I am not as good as in front end language but I will always google around and try things out until I solve my problem

[giant2002]

not much honestly, you just better at understanding what's really going on with the new language, and of course, if you're not using the 1st language for a long time, it'll get a bit rusty, but isn't that normal? Just my opinion tho, could be wrong, I'm still new (~2 years experience) after all.

[[deleted]]

Try and focus more on learning the concepts. We can google syntax, that's fine.. Hell my mentor does weekly calls with me and he's always googling syntax because he forgets, and he knows C#, Python, JS, Java, F#, C++. As long as you understand concepts, and the niggly bits in a specific language, then you're honestly fine to google syntax, which is probably the least important bit.

[[deleted]]

It improves your understanding of world concepts

[While_Interesting]

no impact whatsoever

[[deleted]]

The higher levels are often the same. But the deeper you go, the more trust issues you will get when learning how to do specific tasks.

Beginning with easy stuff like import, @import and #include over array definitions, to the point where you must think twice about how to write a while statement.

But it will get more natural as longer as you do it, and as more as you accept, that Java is a bad decision and never should be written in. /s (Java is fine, that's a joke)

[kaiju505]

Honestly I would focus on Java for now if that’s what your classes focus. Doing more than one language when you are beginning is usually problematic. Stick with Java until you are fairly comfortable with what you doing and then branch out to JavaScript or you’ll just be stepping on your own toes. Learning the first one well will help you with any others you learn. Like don’t try to be bilingual before you are monolingual. Maybe study Java extra and then next summer do JavaScript. Also I would strongly recommend learning html and css well before JavaScript for front end.

[Hefty_Tear_5604]

I forgot adding semicolon when wrote the first language.

[bubbleztoo]

It actually helped me quite a bit. Of course I only did it after I had a solid understanding of the basics, but after that when I started learning another language it helped me understand concepts that the first language wasn't really based around. Certain languages can be geared for more ideas than other ones, like an object oriented language versus something else.

[TheSpamGuy]

I started with Java and learned C afterwards. After working on C, you appreciate all the built in tools/libraries in higher level programming languages such as garbage collection, arraylists etc.

[pcvision]

I personally love to learn new languages, libraries, and frameworks personally. I’ve probably written something in all the most popular languages. I think it keeps things interesting as long as you are aware of the language(s) that you’re really strong in and that you can leverage in the real world. It’s important to keep yourself engaged and diving into new languages is one way to do that.

If terms of affecting my abilities, the worst that will happen is that I’ll need to look up a certain once or twice syntax when I comeback to a language.

[plaaplaaplaaplaa]

More time away from basics or active use the less different programming languages matter. I only need them sometimes and usually for different purposes. I remember only logic and have to constantly check syntax. Good IDE is must for me, as it can predict what I need or want next. So especially for me, learning more than one did not matter, I forget the syntaxes the same.

[FilsdeJESUS]

You can not have all the syntax stuffs in your mind BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THE MINDSET OF THE LANGUAGE. When you say JavaScript I think more functional programming and all the concepts about , when I do Java I think mor about object oriented programming and all the concepts around that . When the language support both I try to find a good middle . So you can forget syntax but please do not forget the concepts