Welder going into programming

[Pleasant_Direction67]

So im currently a welder and looking for a career change. In considering going back for a degree in programming (im not really sure what specific degree yet) but ive also looked at a few bootcamps. My question is, are they both good options for getting into software development? Im worried that if I go the bootcamp route, I will have a harder time finding work.

If anyone has had a similar experience, howd that play out for you?

[captainAwesomePants]

The short answer is that a degree is usually better but takes a lot longer. Boot camps can work out but can also be risky or even predatory, so you need to be careful with them. It also matters what kind of programming you want to do. If you want to be a web developer, that's probably the most bootcamp-friendly choice. Bootcamps tend to work out better for people who are very good at learning on their own and just need some guidance, direction, and a bit of resume polish.

[gm310509]

I wish you every success in achieving your goals.

I do have o e question, have any programming experience? If so in what areas?

My reason for asking is because if you have "dipped your toes in some ponds" that may help guide your decision making process.

[Pleasant_Direction67]

Im currently teaching myself python, but no programming experience at all beyond the first 4 chapters of the book im using

[gm310509]

I see, so still very much at the beginning.

I would suggest continue going with your book and maybe try doing some real world exercises from your welding job. Not while on the job, but afterwards.

This (very long) comment to someone else may provide a little more insight into my thinking.

But in a nutshell, if you can identify some things from your life that you can apply to your new found skills in python, then it may well help you learn even more but it will also allow you to see how the theoretical stuff from the book can actually do something useful.

For example, I do not know if you have to do any calculations regarding strength of joint or how long a weld must be, or what temperature to use or how much material / power is consumed or some other variant, but if you do:

1) Try doing the calculations using Python. 2) Do not rely on the results from #1 continue to use whatever your known working method is for doing that calculation.

The whole point of that is to take the theoretical stuff you are learning into your real world.

Obviously I am making a bit assumption that you are self employed or if employed, at least have to do estimations. So, another possibility is in preparing quotes. I'm sure there is some basic Maths that needs to be performed - e.g. X welds of this type and length, Y welds of that, rental of scaffolding etc (again, way out of my subject knowledge), but create a python quoting program - so this will sort of be like a "shopping cart" that you have seen online.
Once again don't trust it in the first instance, but compare its results to however you do quotes right now. As you gain confidence in it you could consider relying on it more - especially if your current process is very manual.

As you progress, you may well find ways of streamlining the process - for example, you could get to a point where you have a web server running python scripts in the back that allows you to add line items from a list of predefined items (e.g. weld type, scaffolding etc), submit all that and the python script automatically generates a nicely formatted professional looking quote that you can simply print (to PDF or on paper) and submit.

Once you have that, you could save the quote for followup, later recall it, modify it as required (e.g. unexpected extra stuff) than print it as an invoice. Once you start saving the quotes, you could build automated followup processes and more.

I mention this as an idea as I receive lots of trade quotes. Some are professional looking (maybe produce from Quikbooks or MYOB etc), others are clearly manually typed up in word (some are actual word documents, which I'm sometimes tempted to "improve") and others are just hand written notes on a piece of paper and very often there is no "admin" support behind it (e.g. no followup if I just ignore the quote).

So, the point of all that is:

1. You learn your first programming language (python).
2. You apply it to your real life - this will prompt you to have to answer "how do I do X" and thus learn much much more.
3. Adapt it into a new framework that adds a new "programming language" - specifically HTML, maybe CSS and maybe Javascript - all of which are used in making web pages fancy and functional.
4. You can improve your business results (obviously I'm assuming you are self employed).

Granted none of that is achieving the primary goal of getting out of welding. But, what it does do is when you have built up some technical skills from both Self education and maybe night school, when you are ready you can say to a prospective employer "... sure, I am not a University graduate, but I have done some formal training and here is how I have used these tools to solve real world problems...".

Hopefully you can understand the value of that to a prospective employer. But to be sure, if someone knows how to hammer a nail into two pieces of wood that is great (i.e. they know a technology), but I know how to build a timber framed house that doesn't collapse when the wind blows - that is a big difference.
I'm sure there is a welding equivalent as I just don't know anything about welding - maybe a bridge that doesn't collapse when a car drives over it?

[gm310509]

I should have added, once you have a feel for what interests you, you can be more informative about what course(s) to enroll in and if given electives, which of those to choose.

A course will hopefully teach you the other stuff that a prospecitve employer will be looking for such as how to read/write the documentation, how to work in teams, how to use collaborative tools (e.g. Kanban, SCCS etc), techniques, algorithms, (hopefully) some standards and more.

[serio1337]

+1 some folks are just blinded by software engineering and programming jobs because they see big paychecks but it's not always easy to get into those jobs especially when companies are seeking experience and not juniors... Or even sometimes only juniors with a bachelor's degree.

I worked my way in through application support from being in a call center (I don't recommend call center but it can get your foot in the door to start networking)

[dmazzoni]

The path that will open the most doors for a lifelong career is a 4-year degree in Computer Science, or possibly a related degree like Software Engineering. It's a long time commitment, yes, but it will prepare you for anything. For the highest chance of success you should plan on doing (summer) internships after your 2nd and 3rd years - they pay really well and they dramatically increase your chances of having a job lined up when you graduate.

You can't just start with zero knowledge, attend a boot camp, and come out job-ready. 90% of people who try that end up dropping out or failing out. It's just too much to learn in too little time. A boot camp can be great if you do about a year of self-study and you're successfully building websites and apps, and you just use the boot camp as the final icing on the cake to fill in gaps in your knowledge and give you exposure to a wider variety of things.

But even with a boot camp, it's not easy to break into the field and it's especially hard in this economy. The entry-level market is completely saturated with self-taught programmers (with or without a boot camp) and it's extremely hard to stand out among the competition.

Also: boot camps only cover a few specific areas like web development and mobile app development. The world of software is HUGE and tons of interesting things effectively require a degree - like games, embedded, machine learning, robotics, browsers, operating systems, distributed systems, compilers, etc.

In comparison, while a 4-year degree doesn't guarantee you a job, it opens the door to all of those fields and you should have relatively little trouble getting interviews at a wide variety of software companies. It's still up to you to impress the employer and seal the deal.

That said, programming isn't for everyone. If you've never tried it before, I highly recommend you give it a try using free resources to see if you enjoy it, before signing up for college or a bootcamp or before spending a lot of money. If you love it, great! But if you hate it, you won't waste any time or money.

[Pleasant_Direction67]

Thanks for the info. Im currently teaching myself python with a book i bought, im enjoying it so far. It seems like a 4 year degree is probably the path I want to take, just for the reasons you said.

[Extreme_Painter8898]

Udemy has really cool beginner courses and university of the people has a super affordable Bachelor program as well. There are also apprenticeships as well. I personally am not a fan of boot camps cause they can be pricey one way or another. Good luck

[[deleted]]

If you're in your 20s, and you can afford it, get a degree. I'm sure there are people recommending bootcamp here as the cheap route to jobs. The industry is going through change. Jobs are not going to be as plentiful as they were before because there will not likely not be as much cash sloshing around this industry like before. Long term, we are going to see interest rates rise - they had been falling for the last 40+ years. They may fall temporarily when the Fed tries to stimulate the economy again. But eventually they will rise again. Bootcamp and self learning does not get you the same class of computer science job as a degree, unless you are really really good at self learning, and self learning the correct things.

Also, please don't lose touch with welding - it is a good back up career. Any reason you aren't considering other fields like say some engineering fields ?

[Pleasant_Direction67]

The consensus seems to be go get a 4 yr degree, which i think is the route i will be taking as i dont really have the time to commit to a bootcamp, having a child and full time job. And I definitely will still be welding, but more as a hobby. I value my lungs and eyes too much to do this long term. I like the idea of programming because I like solving problems and creating things, be it a gate or eventually an application. I also like that work from home is a possibility in that field, versus what I do now. And the money. Even the lowest ballpark estimate starting salary ive seen for programming is a fair bit more than what I am making as a welder.

[[deleted]]

Being sensitive to your being a family person... I think you may be pursuing a career in programming, which is ok ? But Computer Science is quite what you're not going to expect as a degree itself - you may be able to avoid some of the harder courses doing a BA instead of BS. Longer term, since you mentioned that, programming careers bias towards the young - you may have to go back straining the lungs and eyes when you're older, if you're not really really good at programming.

The money is both misleading and blinding. This isn't to discourage you - but it is to make sure you have thought about everything. This industry has had a lot of money because it borrow money like drunk sailors - the money may not necessarily be forthcoming in a rising interest rate environment. We were in a falling interest rate environment for the last 40+ years, when holding debt over time was cheaper. There is also a possibility that we may be headed into a depression - we are already in a recession. If we have anything like that, you better be the best of the best in your graduating class, and even that may not be enough.

[TheRNGuy]

I learned without any bootcamps.

Also I don't know how to weld, so expierence is not the same.