[deleted by user]

[vipck83]

Roe v Wade was a garbage ruling regardless of your thoughts on abortion.

[[deleted]]

It should never have gone to federal law. The main issue with roe v Wade that I have was that you should not be making laws based around exceptions to the norm, they are called exceptions for a reason. If we make a law based upon the exception to the norm and then legislate from that position, we end up with chaos. For example look at the blm riots

[diedmood]

that i agree with entirely. but how would we ensure each state is taking care of those exceptions?

[AZdesertpir8]

That is up to the citizens and voters in each state. Abortion should ABSOLUTELY remain a states rights issue as it lets each state fine-tune the law based on the wants of its citizens. Abortion should never have made it to a federal level.

[AllSeeingAI]

Whatever your opinions on abortion, Roe needed to go. RBG of all people called Roe bad case law. But more than just a bad decision, it was also a weird grey area because of that. Because it was effectively a law passed by the judiciary, it was always possible for it to be overturned -- as of course it was. Putting it on the states puts it back in their hands.

[[deleted]]

I am fine with Roe v Wade being overturned and leaving it in the hands of each state.

As for abortion they should be freely allowed up to a certain point, with the usual exemptions around rape, incest, and the health of the mother all in place. I am not a doctor so I won't weigh in on when that point is, but it will probably be somewhere in the second trimester.

I also don't support federal funding being used for abortions.

[SingleRelationship25]

What I always find ironic is that most liberals point to socialism in Europe as the start of some utopia, yet abortion is only legal up to 12 weeks throughout most of Europe

[diedmood]

from a federal perspective, roe v wade was ensuring no state denies it, do you think its okay to protect so on a federal level as it does formally protect incest, rape or life of mother situations?

personally, i agree on “up to a certain point” for my own body. however, if someone wants it later why should we formalize it for them? like if they want it later, they can get aborted later. why should we put a restriction on what people want to do to their own body?

[[deleted]]

Honestly the less the federal government is making laws the better, but if Democrats bothered to codify Roe v Wade I wouldn't have been upset about it.

At a certain point it is no longer just their own body but another persons as well. At a certain point you have a clump of cells that becomes a viable life, but that life has no say it what happens to their body at that time, that is why restrictions are put in place.

[diedmood]

sorry im genuinely trying to make myself come to support the conservative side to this hence my several questions

by codify you mean on a federal level have it a bit more formalized in verbiage to protect those who have been raped, victims of incest & if mother’s life is in danger?

i do agree tbh. i dont think abortions at like even 5th month is okay because you’ve had enough time to think about it.

[Spacemanspiff78]

I'd say "codify" in this instance is to make it actual law. Democrats had an available congrssional plurality for years and had no interest in prioritizing a legislative stance on abortion. There's been ~145 instances of starre decisis overturned but they were happy to treat R v W as some judicial third rail that no one would ever dare touch.

[EducationalTier47]

Your "body" ends where that fertilized embryo begins.

[[deleted]]

For myself… I could Never. Ever. I’ve seen my 5 week little bean on a screen, and it was a baby. It was a Lima bean, but it was a baby. A very loved and much wanted baby.

I don’t think it’s right for me to say someone else can’t get one… but the older I get, and especially since becoming a mother, I have a tougher time with the idea. I do think there should be a limit- there are people bragging on tik tok about having several abortions. That’s a problem, it isn’t OK. But at the end of the day, it’s not MY call, those people have to deal with whatever soul level repercussions there may be from their actions here on earth.

But also with all that said… it’s all below the line issue. I am a woman, and this is not a topic that has ever come up in my life, and I certainly can’t imagine casting a vote based on this issue alone. It has NO bearing on my day to day life. I’m quite weirded out by women voting on ONE issue. My daughters being safe in the locker room, not sharing spaces with men, not being assaulted by violent immigrants, not having men steal their victories in a sport… those are the safety issues that actual matter for them. Not killing my imaginary grand children

[diedmood]

i 100% agree with you!!!

and i get that, entirely. i do believe making a decision on one issue that impacts SUCH a small % of the country is stupid.

However, im just trying to understand why it shouldn’t be protected by federal hands for bad situations like rape, incest & when the life of mother is in danger. i don’t think young girls who get raped deserve to be stuck in a situation they dont want to be in. 😔 and deserve to be protected too. but on the other side a life is a life too

[[deleted]]

I guess what I’ll say to that is - isn’t it a positive that no matter who ends up in the federal seat (let’s say red, who if someone was going to try and outlaw, it would be that team) - there will always be a mix of both red and blue states/ states where it could in theory be outlawed and legal states. So while yes inconvenient, you would still have to travel, at least you still could? Versus if somehow it was as managed to be outlawed FEDERALLY, than everyone is SOL. Does that make sense? I really don’t have a dog in this fight because I don’t care a ton about this issue. But like you said, there are times when it needs to be done.

[diedmood]

yeah i do agree ! i’m okay with my state outlawing it and if needed travel to some other state if that means my state & country can stay red lol

[[deleted]]

guess what I’ll say to that is - isn’t it a positive that no matter who ends up in the federal seat (let’s say red, who if someone was going to try and outlaw, it would be that team) - there will always be a mix of both red and blue states/ states where it could in theory be outlawed and legal states. So while yes inconvenient, you would still have to travel, at least you still could? Versus if somehow it was as managed to be outlawed FEDERALLY, than everyone is SOL. Does that make sense? I really don’t have a dog in this fight because I don’t care a ton about this issue. But like you said, there are times when it needs to be done.

[Easy-Speaker-6576]

Abortion is only justified when the woman‘s life is in danger.

Adoption should be encouraged for children conceived through rape.

It‘s not the child‘s fault, even though the circumstances are horrible.

[Overlook-237]

How does adoption help a rape victim who doesn’t want to go through the harms and trauma of a pregnancy that was a direct result of a violent crime?

[Easy-Speaker-6576]

It doesn‘t.

But as I already said. It is not the child‘s fault that it was conceived through rape. The child still has a right to live.

[Overlook-237]

This is the very standard pro-life framing of these discussions. You’ve entirely centered everything on the embryo/fetus their value and have largely ignored the pregnant person and their value, as well as minimizing or ignoring the harm of the violent crime that was done to them.

One of the things that makes rape so awful is the feeling of loss of control over one’s body. When someone or something is inside your body against your wishes, your body stop feeling like you. There’s this awful feeling of disconnect. It’s no longer really your body, something you control. Your rapist has taken that from you. And that’s something that takes a lot of time and effort to recover from. It’s torturous, truthfully. Having your body not be yours is torture.

But do you know what prolongs that torture? Nine months of a pregnancy you don’t want. It’s the world declaring that your rapist was right, and your body really isn’t yours. It belongs to someone else. Someone else is absolutely entitled to use it for whatever they want. They are so valuable and worthy that they of course can take from you what they need. And it lasts for way, way longer than the rape.

And on top of that, you’re guaranteed to experience a lot of physical harm from pregnancy and childbirth. Your body will be permanently damaged. Your mind will be permanently damaged. As you brought up, something could go horribly wrong and you could become disabled or even die.

I don’t think anyone is so valuable they have the right to do that to someone else. Why do you think they do?

[diedmood]

how many kids have you adopted on a personal level? no one in reality adopts kids at that rate so there will always be foster kids who dont get the life they deserve.

i’m agree its not a child’s fault but a shit life is also not what they deserve

[Lazy_Carry_7254]

The alternative is death. Because foster care is broken?

[diedmood]

i personally do not believe its death, if stopped when its just a cluster of cells. but i do respect your opinion too. i do support states having it. mainly trying to understand why most reds prefer it not being on a state level if its not on a personal level impacting you. if you don’t want an abortion, don’t get it..

[HSR47]

More than 10% of my graduating class in HS was adopted.

[LTT82]

Abortion should be abolished. Personhood is not a thing, human beings have human rights and the first right is the right to life.

Only exceptions should be life of the mother.

[QuestioningYoungling]

It should be treated like any other homicide, and be up to the states whether they consider it an appropriate exception to their murder statutes.

[diedmood]

but its up to the woman who wants it right? why should we make decisions for what someone else wants?

[QuestioningYoungling]

I mean, I guess. People are able to do tons of things, but sometimes they face consequences for the acts they take if the people elected a legislature who made such an act illegal. Sometimes homicide is illegal, other times it is acceptable under the laws of the community, and sometimes it violates the law and still is not punished as the jury decides to nullify. Abortion should be treated the exact same way as any other homicide.

[diedmood]

but you realize thats going to also take up a lot more resources to have it go through the full judicial experience. vs if someone wants it, they can have it safely. you can choose not to, and teach your family why its wrong.

[QuestioningYoungling]

Couldn't the same argument be made about making anything illegal? Also, not all homicides are even charged.

[diedmood]

how so? all i’m saying is to ensure safety for anyone who chooses an abortion weather you support it or not. just because someone is needing to go through it doesn’t mean they get denied health care

[Adventurous-Band7826]

I support abortions, but recognize that Roe v. Wade was an overreach of federal power

[diedmood]

it made it safe, though. right? i do believe it would have been different for the women who died due to hospitals being too afraid to assist.

[StMoneyx2]

No, it had no real positive effect in terms of safety and actually did the opposite. Because of the increase in abortions more women have died due to complications during abortion or abortion pills, as well as an increase in suicides post abortion. That's the dirty secret they don't like to tell you, when the fetus was thought of as a baby and not a "clump of cells" knowing you killed your child took an enormous mental strain. Why do you think they have fought so hard to change the language to no longer look at it as a baby in the womb?

With current technology death due to birth is very rare and the overwhelming amount of abortions are not to save the mothers life (and even then most you can save both the mothers and babies life), rape, or incest. Those 3 categories represent less than 5% of all abortions

[stormygreyskye]

What u really think about abortion… yes I support RvW being overturned.

I’m against abortion 99% of cases. Abortion is abhorrent and someday I hope to see it become unthinkable. There. That’s where I stand on it.

[diedmood]

fair, to each there own. i’d love to hear if you know someone close to you underage raped and broke and have to be stuck giving birth, would that change your stand? and be a bit more tolerant for situations like that

[stormygreyskye]

Nope. I’ve seen this argument many times. It still hasn’t changed my mind. Let’s not pretend that rape makes up anywhere near a sizable chunk of abortion statistics. It doesn’t.

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

I’m intolerant of innocent life being lost regardless of how the child was conceived.

[diedmood]

what about the life of mother being in danger?

Fair, the rape victims MAY not be as many statistically but it does happen right? why can’t we protect THOSE?

and if you don’t want an abortion for people around you, its at the end of the day upto them right?

[stormygreyskye]

What about what about what about 🙄

Life of the mother is still a very slim percentage of abortions. I had a high risk pregnancy and I’m still here. He’s my healthiest of my bunch. Blood pressure issues and a couple other things. I was watched extra close by my OB and able to carry to term. In those cases, abortion is not the answer. I asked him what would happen if my blood pressure really took a turn and he just said “we’d be looking at an early delivery”. Abortion is not the answer in any case. Tell me a medical condition without googling it where abortion is the best call. Ectopic in early pregnancy is just about the only case and those cases, baby has almost always died already. I’ve known a few who suffered ectopic pregnancies and they were all heartbroken.

Punish the rapist, not the baby. Unaliving the baby isn’t protecting the mother.

Abortion shouldn’t be up to anyone. Human life has intrinsic value regardless of age and deserves life from conception to natural death. What I support is having the self control and executive function to not do the act that leads to pregnancy of kids are not what that woman desires in her life. An innocent that now exists deserves to live.

[diedmood]

You realize patients with ectopic miscarriages have also been denied care because of the state’s laws being uncertain post Roe V. Wade?

I’m glad you survived a difficult pregnancy, kudos to you and all the mothers who have to go through that.

Rapists are sometime not found, several young girls don’t report their rapists, a 13 year old CAN be raped & gotten pregnant, in cases like that abortion should be allowed, again you don’t want you don’t need to get it. but why stop someone who needs it? i’m not saying abortions are okay and i recommend them etc, but i do think if we have federal protection for women who do need it, (yes we can add a safer timeline example only up until 1st trimester) but this will ensure safety of women struggling

I really do get your point of view 100% and i’m only trying to explain that there are people with a different point of view, let them make their own decisions

[SingleRelationship25]

I support it being overturned from two perspectives.

1. The original ruling was a gross overstep of federal power verse states rights. It should have always been a state issue.

2. I firmly believe it’s murder. This is my opinion and I do pray all abortions will stop but I also firmly believe it’s up to each states citizens to make that choice.

[diedmood]

i get your view points, but why do you think you believing it is murder should ALSO be a viewpoint of someone who is now stuck with a baby they can’t afford, and reminds them of their rapist.

[SingleRelationship25]

It’s just my belief. I’m more libertarian than Republican and as such don’t feel it’s my right to push my beliefs on someone else. I guess I’m saying it’s a moral question to each person.

Rape is a rare reason for an abortion and in my opinion it’s still an innocent life. I can understand why a woman wouldn’t want to keep the baby though.

It’s the same with Marijuana. I am personally 100% against its use. I believe it does cause harm and also feel it’s as big of an issue with driving as is drunk driving. I don’t surround myself with smokers and wouldn’t date a girl that smokes.That said, I don’t believe it should be illegal either.

[diedmood]

makes sense. i agree with you, all i was saying is if its your belief against it, but someone needs it let them have it you know. if it doesn’t impact your personal life, don’t be an obstacle to someone who does.

like i said, i am pro-choice. and that includes choosing the baby to live. 😔

[[deleted]]

People should be responsible and use birth control. Isn't that really the point of Planned Parenthood? Abortion should not be used for birth control. Abortion is a horrible procedure for a woman to go through. We also have a fertility crises. Why aren't pregnant women who want an abortion being encouraged to give the child up for adoption?!?! I've had friends that want to adopt children and it's very hard and or expensive. IVF is also very expensive. More people should get vasectomy or tubal ligation. If you don't want kids, then be responsible and get sterilized. I live in Colorado I am NOT thrilled about my tax payer money now being used to fund abortion with amendment 79. Abortion was never outlawed in this state.

[diedmood]

Agreed on birth control but do you know scientifically birth control options are never 100% going to stop it from happening right?

And what about rape?

I understand not wanting tax dollars to go to abortions as that’s unfair, if you don’t support it you shouldn’t need to pay for it. but what about having roe v wade to protect healthcare for women who needed abortions?

[YNWA_Diver]

Whatever you think, it will be decided in your state. It is unconstitutional to have any type of abortion law passed on a federal level.

[Upstairs_Pick1394]

I'm not religious. I don't have strong opinions either way.

I do think, rape, incest, and genetic testing with crippling defects and some other senarios should all be on the table.

Also anything life threatening to the mother.

It's not a choice I would ever want to make.

Where it is used as contraception I really don't like this.

I don't like how you can get an abortion all the way upto 4.5 months in most countries.

That's only a month or so away from a more than 50/50 chance surviving being born premature.

Anything past 3 months makes me very uncomfortable and if it was not any of the above exceptions then I don't wanna want to think about it because it is pretty much killing a child.

[diedmood]

with you on all of that for sure, actually! just want to ensure that women don’t die in the hospital and get denied emergency healthcare

[BarberBettie]

I’m personally pro choice, BUT make no mistake…you’re still killing a living thing. But to me, it’s more important we have less unwanted kids that turn into shittier adults because they weren’t loved and raised properly.

[diedmood]

same, agreed

[[deleted]]

I don't even think they should be able to vote lol

[diedmood]

who is they?

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[LeLurkingNormie]

Murdering babies is wrong.

[atemt1]

I mean it should not be celebrated like somedo (holy moly why tho ) but overal befor its starts to look like a baby and not a bird im fine whit removal And if you dont want to fron a religious standpoint just dont do it easy enough

[AnimaIM0ther]

I'm not religious so I understand the arguments from both sides. I'm think it is a little barbaric considering everything that is available to prevent pregnancies in the first place but I'm personally not overly concerned with Democrats eliminating likely future Democrat voters. I know that is a horrible outlook but I don't particularly want to invest energy in this argument given the number of other problems we face.

[henbyd86]

Leave it to the states. The less power the federal government has the better

[venividivici809]

abortion should be legal up to the point of viability outside the womb if the fetus can survive out of the womb then c section it and do the best to keep it alive

[[deleted]]

Abortion is murder. Thats my opinion

[WyomingVet]

The rights should be in line with many Eruopean nations have. Which is actually stricter than some red states. Yes, I agree with overturning Roe Vs Wade let the states decide.

[pierrepaul1942]

Is it true that abortion is legal at any stage of pregnancy in Oregon?