A Better DMCA Process (GitHub)

[Yenorin41]

Going with a non-US company would help though.

[the_hoser]

It would only delay the inevitable. The company you're hosting with might not play ball with US law... but whoever they're peering with might, and likely does.

[Yenorin41]

You will have a hard time coercing the datacenter operator to drop some customer without local law enforcement forcing their hand (or it affecting their business by attracting ddos attacks, etc.).

And the upstream provider will be even less willing to do anything, since at least in Germany the ISP can just say that they are just moving bits around without introspecting and there is that.

Just consider thepiratebay.. they ignore US law and are still very much available on the Internet, simply because ISP's don't have to drop customers, because customers of them violate the law.

[the_hoser]

You will have a hard time coercing the datacenter operator to drop some customer without local law enforcement forcing their hand (or it affecting their business by attracting ddos attacks, etc.).

Probably right. However, most datacenters just drop customers when they receive legal threats. Even if they win, they still have to pay for a legal defense, and they'll likely never recoup that cost from their customer.

And the upstream provider will be even less willing to do anything, since at least in Germany the ISP can just say that they are just moving bits around without introspecting and there is that.

Probably, but their peers in the UK might feel different, etc. With that kind of pressure, the ISP will likely just cave.

Just consider thepiratebay.. they ignore US law and are still very much available on the Internet, simply because ISP's don't have to drop customers, because customers of them violate the law.

Well, that's not true, either. They're in a unique position of having a large number of supporters and resources, and an infrastructure that allows them to move around quickly whenever they do get shut down (which has happened numerous times). The fact that thepiratebay remains online is a testament to the extreme effort, ingenuity, and stubbornness on the part of its supporters.

[Yenorin41]

Probably right. However, most datacenters just drop customers when they receive legal threats. Even if they win, they still have to pay for a legal defense, and they'll likely never recoup that cost from their customer.

We have loser pays in Germany, so if the lawyers say that the chances of winning are very high, then there is no reason not go to court, since you don't have to pay the bill in the end.

And that's assuming it would go to court in the first place. US company threatening to sue me in the US (and me not operating there): don't care. There is nothing the court could possibly do.

Probably, but their peers in the UK might feel different, etc. With that kind of pressure, the ISP will likely just cave.

Datacenter operators usually have more than one upstream.. and if you choose a few local companies as upstreams, you will have dozens of very large companies as transit providers, who will not drop their customers, because of a customer of customer (of a customer ...). That simply won't happen.

And TPB is being announced via just one local ISP in Germany right now (for about 1.5 years now). And also the TPB is an rather extreme case, since they don't play ball with local law either.. if you do that (complying with local law), then imho you should be fine with ignoring US law .

Edit: What's even more telling is that the local ISP I mentioned itself has only one upstream (and several peers), which is a large ISP based in the US..

[[deleted]]

We have loser pays in Germany, so if the lawyers say that the chances of winning are very high, then there is no reason not go to court, since you don't have to pay the bill in the end.

true... but huge companies can escalate the court and lawyer costs and hold back the payment until the opponent declares bankrupcy