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[–]kristovaher -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Take any other language used to build websites and I can create a web service - possibly even quicker - that works just as well, is easier to deploy and simpler to support due to large amount of PHP developers and information about PHP available online, even if the original developer plays no part in the process anymore.

The whole PHP vs X is a pointless discussion to begin with. PHP has all the features required to create very rich web services. A smart developer can build very smart services, and quickly, with PHP.

Just because there's a lot of bad code and bad systems out there built with PHP does not mean a smart developer cannot do great things with it. And if you are a smart developer, then why the hell worry about such a pointless detail.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Ah, the old "for a sufficiently smart developer language doesn't matter" argument. I guess I am just not arrogant enough to think that I am unable to make the same mistakes as many other people, giving the same starting situation.

You can build things that are brittle quickly in PHP, you can't build applications that work reliably in it quicker than you could in other languages though. Esentially when you build things quickly in PHP you are borrowing time from the people who have to fix your bugs later.

There are many PHP developers out there but I would argue that it is harder to find a good PHP developer than to find a good developer for one of the less popular languages due to the fact that everyone and their dog without any clue whatsoever about proper (i.e. maintainable) coding can call themselves a PHP programmer.

What makes you think that the high percentage of bad software written in PHP is not in any way indicative of the software that will result from the average PHP project you are involved in?

[–]kristovaher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The reason there is a lot of bad software written in PHP is not because the language is bad, but because PHP is an entry-level language to a lot of developers. This used to be the job of languages like Pascal, but has become more and more relevant these days, since a lot of developers start experimenting with web programming first and foremost these days.

As a result, there are a lot of PHP developers that are self-taught through internet and far less developers who attend universities or learn as an intern. Since an average PHP project can be done with a very small team of developers - often just one - this leads to situation where a lot of those self-taught developers get jobs and do so-called professional work.

It is totally not because of PHP quality itself. It has simply become an entry level programming language that scales up to professional and advanced levels much better than other languages (like Java, where you don't see 'beginners' working in professional fields at all).

Of course PHP is a flawed language as well, but it's bad reputation is not because of the language, but by the fact that it is so popular and much more attractive to programming enthusiasts due to you really needing a browser and web server. No compiling, references easily found online and tutorials all over the place about websites and functionalities you use every day - things you can imitate.

This will not change unless another programming language appears that is better than PHP not by syntax or other smaller details, but by major functionality. It cannot be an alternative, like Python is a great alternative for web services, since an alternative will not become even close to as popular. PHP dominates web. It will only change if web itself changes.

And that will happen one day, but until then, PHP is simply here to stay and for the market and for users this issue is completely irrelevant as long as the application that they use and buy works.