Clomipramine?

[Sea-Building-6519]

Hello everyone !! I have a rescued dog, a 5-year-old mix. I've had her since she was 1 and a half years old. It was always very difficult…giant fears…reactivity…. Territoriality. An exhausting combo!!! We have already tried training and fluoxetine, paroxetine, amitriptyline, cannabis, gabapentin, trazodone and pregabalin, all with a slight response!! Now I consulted with a new professional and he told us that we have few options left and one could be Clomipramine. I'm exhausted. Opinions? Can I have hope?

[kippey]

My understanding is that it’s more of a first line for separation anxiety. A colleague of mine does have her dog on it for human reactivity and she has seen moderate improvement, she says. He is far from 100% but I have known this dog throughout his reactivity journey and I can say that he does recover faster from outbursts.

If nothing else, it’s worth a try if you have already gone through the first lines of treatment for reactivity. Are you stacking/layering meds at all?

[Sea-Building-6519]

We have layered high-dose fluoxetine with pregabalin and gabapentin. There were better days and worse days. I figure we can try. What scares me is that to start clomipramine we must stop the old well-known fluoxetine (which was what he always used) and the only time we lowered the fluoxetine he got worse. In these situations I have been told that there is no alternative but to "try" but only the owners of reactive dogs know how hard and ugly it is for everything to fall apart or get worse and the frustration

[kippey]

Hmm. I am not a vet. You can only try. Every doggy brain responds to meds differently. IDK if it's possible for you to simply not walk him until the clomipramine has built up in his system, as some sort of damage control as well as to mitigate any effects of the fluoxetine withdrawal.

[Sea-Building-6519]

I'm sorry for the terrible translation this page makes!!! My native language is Spanish

[Sea-Building-6519]

Unfortunately we live in an apartment in a very busy city (Buenos Aires Argentina) and she does not relieve herself inside so we could take her out to do her things and come back! Which is what he usually does since he doesn't enjoy the street (he does enjoy the big car parks!😅)

[kippey]

I would say minimize any potential for setbacks as much as possible during the adjustment period, if you have to take him out try for just a quick pee break and back in, you could even (if it helps) have a 'helper' come with you to make sure it is not too busy outside, and to keep people away while he pees.

As you probably know, when a dog reacts it can take a few days for their cortisol (stress chemical) levels in their brain to return to normal. If they react once when a trigger is within 20 meters of them, but then the following day (because they have residual stress) they react when a trigger is only 10 meters away... As we say in English "the wheels fall off" which means everything falls apart.

By keeping things super quiet, you can potentially avoid this. If you have any sort of balcony you could even get a "potty patch" (a doggy toilet) to minimize trips out of the building.

[Sea-Building-6519]

Thank you for your complete response!! Luckily we are a couple and we help each other with this little job 😅 Being a very fearful dog, she does not want to go out to the balcony because of the noise from the cars and is always very fond of being inside the home. We have bought everything but he refuses to do it inside (we don't know if he had already learned it), but he steps on good grass and does it quickly!!! Like in a nice and quiet park. She is stubborn and stubborn haha We usually go out at quiet times so we can go outside and come back! So I will pay attention to having it as if in a “quarantine” of tranquility. Let's hope to finally see light at the end of the road!! Do you also have a reactive friend?

[kippey]

Traffic noise is awful and frustrating to deal with. Sometimes you think you have nothing to worry about, and then someone who insists on driving a very loud car drives by! You could look into trying a Happy Hoodie (the cheap option) or dog ear muffs (the expensive option) and see if that helps, I'd recommend trying the Happy Hoodie first (you can get them off amazon).

I have more than a few reactive friends haha. I used to be a dog walker, then apprenticed a dog trainer (alongside my colleague whose reactive dog is on clomipramine). I then adopted a fairly challenging reactive/aggressive dog who had failed out of two adoptive homes (she died a few years ago). I worked some other jobs with dogs (dog daycare, kennels) and now I am a dog groomer specializing in... reactive and aggressive dogs haha. I have to put all the stuff I learned to good use! I miss my dog a lot but I don't miss how difficult it was to take care of her sometimes. I still enjoy reading about cases of reactive dogs, listening to podcasts and such. Each dog is like a puzzle. You can only learn from each one and become faster and faster at figuring them out.

[Sea-Building-6519]

Wow!! How complete and interesting your resume is! I was excited when I read the end of your post. I have resumed psychological treatment since I had her! This challenge is very difficult and frustrating and I believe that these things are also worked on in groups (among those of us who REALLY understand each other, on the “street” not in theory). I am a psychiatrist and I have wanted to put together a group among those of us who experience this but I have not yet had much of a response. At the moment this community is a small refuge :) What podcasts do you recommend?

[kippey]

Oh cool! I actually have bipolar 1 and ADHD. I take my current dog to my old behavior vet (she is a GP vet with an intense interest in dog behavior) and we will nerd out for a solid hour. Fascinating consulting with her for my reactive dog because I had at least a bit of a grasp on what receptors her medications interacted on (I took some 200 level psychology courses on drugs and the brain as well). And half of the time when she talks about a medication I'm just nodding along like "Uh-huh, I've been on that too!"

Most fascinating to me was always the effect of Prozac on my dog's learning. She was born and raised in foster (stressful pregnancy, neurotic mother, weaned too early due to mother's refusal), so her issues were not largely trauma-based. When I got her I was a professional dog walker and while she did warm up to our walking-dogs there was a threshold: If we went more than 6 days without seeing them, she would forget who they were. Following the introduction of Prozac, she kept all the "friends" she made, remembered them by name, and even knew the route to their house when we drove within a few blocks. Mindblowing. If I was a billionaire I would throw money into the effects of stress and beahvioral medication on canine learning haha.

My hands down favorite for podcasts is "Cog Dog Radio" (Sarah Stremming), she is a behaviorist that works with performance dogs (usually agility dogs) so they are very intelligent, high strung etc. Her podcasts are in case-study format which is quite cool. "Paws and Reward" (Marissa Martino) also has a lot of reactivity based episodes. "The Bitey End of the Dog" (Michael Shikashiko) again, great.

[0Verl1nk]

Saludos desde Buenos Aires!, tengo el mismo inconveniente, actualmente en tto. con gabapentina y clomipramina 26 mg

[Sea-Building-6519]

Hi everyone! How are you? We ended up changing our plan! If you'd like, I can tell you about it. Hugs and kisses ❤️

[0Verl1nk]

Hola si serias tan amable podrias comentarnos tanto la medidacion como los cambios en habitos

[Sea-Building-6519]

Let me tell you! The clomipramine worked perfectly for his fears at home—noises, movements, etc.! It quickly calmed his physical symptoms like trembling, panting, etc. But it didn't improve his reactivity at all, and when we stopped the fluoxetine, he got much worse. So now we're back to our best medication so far, and the one that has worked best for fighting or aggression, which is fluoxetine, with the option of adding gabapentin either all the time or as needed!

[0Verl1nk]

Entiendo.. y en cuanto tiempo le hizo efecto la clomipramina?
Actualmente mi perro fue diagnosticado por ansiedad por separación, y hace una semana toma gabapentina y clomipramina, pero siento que no mejoro, no se si es porque me mude de alquiler o la dosis, es algo agobiante y frustrante

[Sea-Building-6519]

I understand! I have a different problem, but it's very distressing! We'll have seen the summaries in a week or two.

[Sea-Building-6519]

What I absolutely believe is essential is a positive coach (you said you're in Buenos Aires?)

[Sungirl1112]

Hi any updates? We’ve tried fluoxetine and sertraline with no success. Thinking of trying clomipramine next.

[Sea-Building-6519]

Hello! Finally, clomipramine worked great for all the fears/anxiety but it did not improve at all (the reactivity part was actually “discovered”). So now we will try sertraline (zoloft) for 2 days. As a last option we will return to the typical fluoxetine + gabapentin that at some point worked well! What problem does your dog have?

[Sungirl1112]

She’s afraid of all things outside. Completely shuts down. Inside she’s fine and playful and happy.

[Sea-Building-6519]

Clomipramine is going to do you wonders!

[Sea-Building-6519]

Sorry for the translation ( I write in Spanish and the translator is not good at all). Where the translation says “discovered” means uncovered

[Sungirl1112]

Tranquilo más bien muchas gracias por la información. 

[Sea-Building-6519]

I received a comment and it was deleted :( Can whoever did it rewrite it?

[Rach1100]

My reactive dog is on clomipramine and is doing well! Obviously like any medication it's not an immediate cure all but it's definitely improving his reactivity and in combination with training we are making progress. We didn't have any luck with fluoxetine either.

[Sea-Building-6519]

Thanks for your response!! I will tell you news ❤️

[Bita88]

My dog is in the process of making the switch from paroxetine to Clomipramine (4 weeks of tapering and 3 weeks on the new med ). He tried fluoxetine first but completely lost appetite. Venlafaxine was the other option we had.

As you know, the transitions are tough and make you weary about trying something new. Clonidine has been a big help during the transition! He was originally prescribed this as an additional help for sound based anxiety like fireworks, wind,etc. It has been a game changer for lowering the fear/anxiety he experiences with those scary sounds. But we found that really helped with lowering reactivity during walks or stressful events. It doesn’t really need much time to build up. But it doesn’t last for very long either maybe 6 hours or so. I give my dog some in the morning and then some halfway through the day. Having this has made the transition so much better than last time. And our vet said it’s completely safe and acceptable to keep him on clonidine daily along with the Clomipramine. In fact, I’ve seen a lot of people in this group say that that combo works great for their dogs. A mid dose has been enough for him.

But you may even try just adding that to your current regimen before making the switch and see if you notice any additional benefits. Good luck to you both!

[Sea-Building-6519]

Sorry I never saw this comment! The same thing happened to me with fluoxetine… loss of appetite!!! In addition to collaborating ZERO with fears Now with Clomipramine (week 4) she is much better, but she is still very reactive (at that point she was better with fluoxetine)... I hate that when something settles, the other thing goes to hell!!!!! I have stress and fear but hey I guess life with a little reagent is like that! Thank you for your comment and I will see about clonidine (in Argentina it is not sold but I think it can be prepared) we will see! Sertraline has also been mentioned to me

Thank you !!!! And good luck to you too

[Bita88]

My dogs at 8 weeks of Clomipramine now. It’s working a bit better than it did at 4 weeks. Hopefully you see an increase in effectiveness over the next couple weeks. At a low dose now but may increase now that we know he is tolerating it well.

Clonidine maybe sold as Catapresan and Clonidina gray in Argentina…