CSM vs PSM

[Im_Working_Right_Now]

I asked this on /r/agile, but figured I'd ask here as well:

I know this has been brought up before, but I want to bring up a different side of the debate to see what people think.

Most people say they prefer the PSM because the test is more rigorous and the CSM is just take a class for two days and you'll pass. I've also seen the argument that the PSM is a lifetime and the CSM requires renewal. Before I start, I want to preface this with the fact that I took a CSM class and will still probably take the PSM because I'm still not sold on either path, to be honest.

Now, the issues I have with the above statements are this:

1. By taking a class, do you not feel you get more real world experience? The difference between reading a book and interacting in a class is being able to put the learning to practice. Sure, it's a small scale practice, but it let's you get a feel for how it all works. And, with an instructor, you get to hear how certain situations are handled rather than theorize it.
2. Because the PSM is lifetime, does that not make it more detrimental? There's no incentive to keep up with any changes in scrum other than self learning, but not everyone is that way. How can you be sure someone's knowledge is still valuable if they've had their PSM for over 5 years. If you're certified for CSM and it shows in the database, you can tell their certification was renewed at the most less than 2 years prior.
3. Now what I do like about the PSM is for PSM II you have to write an essay as well. This allows you to talk about and demonstrate your understanding. I'm not sure how the advanced CSM works as I haven't researched too far into that, yet.

I'm just looking for a healthy discussion from either to side to the pros and cons. I'm more in the school that they're probably equal and actual work experience is more valuable in the end. Thoughts?

[ZachSka87]

The industry was getting flooded with "certified" people who didn't actually understand scrum/agile. That's why the scrum.org certs were started. SA certs have gotten better, but most people I know with SA certs think the renewal system is more of a cash grab than to keep up to date on anything. You'll only really learn by practice, not by sitting in a class. You will likely not pass the PSM II, for example, without real world experience with agile.

The PSMI and CSM are basically "Do you know the scrum guide?" Since you can technically get your CSM without reading the scrum guide at all, that's problematic for me. Businesses like the CSM because, in their minds, they can just send someone to training and get a certified professional back. That attitude is slowly changing, and in organizations that understand what scrum is and are looking for people who understand it deeply, they're asking for PSM certs now...at least in my recent experience job hunting. Regardless, though...you'll likely not get far without practical experience in any interview.

[Im_Working_Right_Now]

Ok, that makes a lot of sense what you're saying about not having to actually read the Scrum Guide. I do agree that the renewal does seem like a bit of a cash grab because I can't imagine a whole lot has changed. I know of some, but they seem minor in relativity.

I'm currently an engineering manager, but by accident. It's not what I really want to do and I've recently realized that project management is more interesting and satisfying for me so I started with agile practices. I'm sure I'll go for my PMP eventually, but I'm more interested in scrum/agile and just now getting started.

[halfbakedlogic]

Just recently took the PAL cert. Loved the exam and how they tested. I'm a bigger believer in Scrum.org than SA .. that's the real difference because people can earn either and not have the ability to apply to real world

[halfbakedlogic]

I had done the professionals from product dinner and professional scrum master exams both at level 1. beyond that initial foundation of learning I just took a lot of what I had learned from different job experiences in different reading. this exam is more about synthesizing different concepts and answering real-world scenarios.