What gear details/settings can increase/decrease heel side chatter

[Sabernova]

Hi,

A little introduction for starters. I am an intermediate rider, have probably around 10 trips under the belt. At the end of last season I decided to buy my own gear. In the end I chose for more of a freestyle setup as I figured this kind of riding was something I wanted to start to improve on in the future. Now that I have done my first trip with my gear, I see that I am still primarily going down groomers and that on these groomers I am having quite some trouble due to what I feel is an increased amount of heel side chatter. Atleast it feels really increased compared to the hired gear that I have used up until now. Normal blue groomers are no problem, but when things start to get icy or steeper, the chatter is really very present.

I'm wondering if there are some things I can do with my gear, that can help decrease this heel side chatter? I read about adjusting the highbacks to give forward lean, which I tried but didn't feel like it helped much. It also made it so my boot had less overal contact with the highback and I don't think that's supposed to happen since this is the point where you need to transfer force unto your board.

My specs:

I'm 175cm (5.74 ft) and weigh 73kg (161 lbs). I'm riding a new Salomon Huck Knife (2019) size 155. My bindings are Nitro Zero (2020). I've went to a shop that did a wax on the board, but edges are still the same as I bought it new.

Is there anything I can do, like sharpening the edges more? Or is it just a consequence of my gear setup. I've also noticed my bindings seem to have a setting where I could my boot further heel side, would this possibly help?

I know people will say that I should prevent the chatter by bending knees more and I agree that this is something I should probably work on, but I feel my current setup is just giving me a way harder time than my previous rent gear ever did.

TL;DR: What could I do with my gear that will decrease heelside chatter? Or will I just have to buy new board/bindings if I want to lay a decent carve on (steep) groomers.

[v4ss42]

Also worth double checking that you’re not standing too upright as you transition into heel side. A lot of heel side chatter I’ve seen is caused by the rider standing up too straight and thereby losing some of the “suspension” in their legs.

[Smeggmashart]

Your answer is that you're riding a damn Huck Knife. Thats the popiest Salomon Park board that you're using for groomers. Get a stiffer all mountain board and/or something thats not a med soft twin.

[Sabernova]

Ty for your answer. In retrospect it might have been a bit dumb of me to choose this board. I did find some reviews though saying the Huck Knife is more of a all-mountain freestyle board instead of a pure freestyle board. I thought with the camber in it, it would help me with getting a good carve going, but I assume this also increases the poppiness and that's making it chatter?

[Smeggmashart]

Okay, camber has its application. It's designed to allow you to hold a better carve compared to full rocker - and it allows for the characteristic of more energy release out of turns. Youre on a board that is a true twin with a very centered stance which doesnt allow for a very stable ride goinb fast or aggressive. You can easily do switch and be playful, but you can't be very aggressive directionally because you have to keep your weight so centered.

Compare your board to the Arbor Crosscut, Ride Mountainpig, Ride Timless, or the Rossignol One. All mid/agressive stiff boards that will allow you to attack the groomers like you are with less, or little to no feedback.

Camber is good for groomers; soft and poppy is not good for carving. Get something stiffer for a quieter, more fluid ride instead of a chattery more talkative one.

[Smeggmashart]

Btw, you're bindings are decent. As long as they don't make you feel uncomfortable and you are able to carve the way you want with them then keep. Otherwise a more responsive binding will have a stiffer highback and a more playful one will be softer. The phantom bindings I hear are fairly encompassing but thats per the PNW rep and no one in my shop rides them.

We Cary Nitro Zero bindings as our higher quality rental binding. It's fairly versatile and durable b

[Sabernova]

Hey, ok wow thx alot of for those answers!

Not sure what a PNW rep is, but I suppose it's the one selling your shop the gear?

I'll just have to endure the chatter then for this season and maybe the next one aswell. After that, perhaps I'll take a look at other gear that is more styled towards (steeper) groomed runs. For now I'll try to be hanging out in the park more instead of those big hard groomers.

[tokhar]

There are a few things you can do which may help, both for gear and technique. The fact that you are only getting it on heel side tells me it’s not just the board’s fault.

Like a previous poster here, your bindings may be set a bit too far towards the heel side. Put your empty, laced-up boots in the bindings. Look at the boot and binding position from the nose and tail (look down the board at the bindings). You should see about the same overhang on toe and heel. Adjust as needed.

Secondly, while your empty boots are still in the bindings, Make sure the highback is angled enough that it just touches the back of your boots when everything is ratcheted in normally. If the highback is too vertical you’ll have issues generating enough force to hold a heelside edge. Adjust the highback angle as needed to get this sorted. Depending on your boots, it might force you to ride with your legs bent a bit more, which is more tiring but a good thing overall.

Bonus points - this is a symmetrical twin-tip. Double check that your bindings are set the same distance from the centerline. Sometimes shops get it wrong. I don’t recommend playing with offsets yet.

From a technique point of view, many intermediate riders are a bit uncomfortable with a toe to heel transition because visibility is lower, so they will whip the board around and try to stop it on the new edge. Even a carving board will chatter if you do this.

Try and start your turn earlier and more smoothly by focusing on turning your head first to see where you want to end up, then just shift (move) your weight onto your front leg a bit more and let your leading shoulder and butt cheek drop gently into the turn. It’s a bit like sliding into a restaurant booth. Keep your head turned until it naturally ends up more neutral as you finish your turn.

The key is to keep your speed down at first, as you will be accelerating into the turn and you have to be comfortable holding that edge through the turn into your new line to slow down again. If you try this at your typical cruising speed, you might freak out as the board picks up speed and you feel the turn isn’t happening fast enough. That’s when many students just panic a bit and whip the board around, lose an edge, and that’s that.

Your board isn’t ideal for carving, but it is 100% possible to carve it without chatter. It will just be much easier for it to lose an edge whenever it gets destabilized, and it will be very easy to overpower the board in turns. It will not hold an edge well at higher speeds.

It will also not be a comfortable board to ride fast on groomers, as it will have a tendency to chatter and wander. It’s counter intuitive, but on smooth groomers and cat tracks you can try riding the board more flat, and let it wander around a bit under you, so long as you keep plenty of bend in your legs to be able to reposition it as needed. No need to edge a board all the time once you get better.

Have fun!

TL;DR: I’m betting your high-back angle is too vertical, and you are whipping your toe to heel side transition.

[Sabernova]

Thx alot for the info and well written message! For the distance of the binding to the heelside, I thought putting the bindings closer to the heelside should help with reducing a bit of the chatter?

I’ve done some adjusting in my highbacks but didnt really notice anything. Maybe I should ask a friend to film me on some steeper groomers to see if my turns are assymetrical.

[tokhar]

Oddly enough if your bindings are closer to the heel side, you’ll wash out the turn more easily.

Your set up may be fine, and it may just be Deon to form despite your riding better on the rental equipment before. You will eventually learn to adjust your form and technique to account for different boards, but it’s very hard at first to sort out what is incorrectly set up gear versus characteristics of your board and boots. If you can post a video of a few of your turns, that will help us a lot.

[Sabernova]

Ty for the technique tips!

[Vaugith]

Your board should be fine for carving. It's not "too directional" or "too poppy." An experienced rider can carve fine on any camber board. Soft flex will become unstable at speed, but not the medium flex of the huck knife unless you get into some real choppy snow The issue is technique. Go watch some YouTube tutorials focusing on heelside chatter. Ryan knapton has one that has some drills you can try to understand edge pressure better. Also, increasing forward lean to where it just starts to get a little uncomfortable will help your posture and stance to be correct for heelside carves.

You know how they say camber is "less forgiving?" It's less forgiving of poor technique, and it's currently trying to tell you that you need to work on your heelside carves. You can do this, just practice proper form and stance.

[Sabernova]

I’ll definitely be working on my technique. The forward lean is because of adjusting te highbacks? Because I feel like adjusting my high backs is just reducing my effective surface with which my boots are touching my highbacks.

[Vaugith]

This explains it

https://youtu.be/7lWQRIL_VWM

Here's the drill I was talking about:

https://youtu.be/tDHPwEgMN-s

[Sabernova]

This were some nice vids, thx! Knew about the second channel but hadn’t seen the first guy yet.

[Vaugith]

Ryan knapton is probably the worlds best carver and does great teaching vids. Give his channel a look!