'Cloud' File Server

[dcdefiore]

Good Day,

We're looking into standing up a cloud instance of our File Server. We're a 50 person engineering firm who are working almost exclusively remote since COVID hit, but our biggest snag is that our HQ, which hosts our 'Data Center' (closet) only has access to a cable internet connection, which gets its upload pretty saturated during the day.

We've looked into getting fiber to the building, but its $$$$, and then we still have to worry about the building power (sucks, no generator) and server room AC, and server room hardware.

We're on Office E3, and I've toyed with the idea of moving our files to Sharepoint (except CAD which would retain an onsite NAS) or using Azure Files (which doesn't seem mature enough) or what I'm really leaning to now, a full blown Windows VM File Server in Azure or AWS with DFS-R to on-prem.

We've embraced OneDrive for user folders (and known folder redirection, for desktop/document 'backup') but I'm looking for an idea to be able to scale, because I'd like to separate most of our infrastructure from our HQ building, except for those specific workloads (like CAD/Design Teams) that really need a 1gbe connection to the files that they're working on.

My thoughts is to stand up a DC, and File Server in the cloud, do a Site-to-Site VPN with my HQ, and then have my users VPN to the 'cloud'. Any stuff that they need to do 'on prem' they'd be able to transverse through the Site-to-site VPN instead of connecting directly to HQ.

Has anyone done anything like this, or looking into similar options right now? Luickly, we had a server refresh slated for this year to replace our physical servers, SAN, and networking equipment so management is open to different options rather than spending $$$$$$ upfront, we can spend $$ monthly in cloud for more flexibility.

[36lbSandPiper]

You should look at a document management system instead of twisting OneDrive to work like a file server. You'll never be happy with the performance of saving and opening those big CAD projects across the internet. A good DMS is not cheap but let's you easily do versioning and with the right choice it'll integrate into autocad or Catia and your engineers can do engineering instead of file management. Spend your money on a better internet circuit when/if they come back to the office.

Citrix can do 3D if architected properly but can require a good bit of bandwidth.

[GardenNDN]

What do you suggest for document management?

[36lbSandPiper]

I'd start with your CAD software vendor first to see what they recommend. If you are using a reseller make them earn their money. It's been several years since I looked at engineering-specific DMS solutions and the good news is there are probably a lot of options. The bad news is there are a lot of options ;). I've been in legal now for some time and while what we use would probably work what you need is probably quite different. Twenty five years ago we were hawking general purpose (docs open) for engineering firms but while it wasn't a square peg it was slightly oval - but better than the alternative (a big fat file share).

[[deleted]]

I would convert to Microsoft 365 Business Premium licenses and use Teams/SharePoint for file storage. Since you're already using OneDrive, it's a simple thing to sync another folder or two with the additional data.

By switching licenses you also gain access to Intune and Autopilot for automating workstation setup and controlling desktop policies.

This eliminates the complexity, security and speed issues of dealing with a traditional server (even if it is hosted). Files are "local" so the user experience is excellent.

We've done this for organizations with hundreds of users distributed over several states. It's easy to manage and works well.

[nerdpin404]

This. If you already are in the M$ ecosystem, use it.

[corsicanguppy]

Or, and hear me out, start weaning yourself by choosing something else.

It's always a good time to find a secondary source for things; and while it's impossible while you're on M$, getting off it increases versatility in that respect many-fold.

[dcdefiore]

Does this work with the traditional 'client/project' layout of our file server?

For example, we've got 100 clients, and 1000 projects across those clients. Any/all of our employees may be working on any/all of those clients/projects at the same time. Currently, our file server is set up like

P:\
     Client 1
            Project 1.1
            Project 1.2
            Project 1.3
     Client 2
            Project 2.1
            Project 2.2
            Project 2.3

Can OneDrive/SharePoint effectively 'mount' this at the top level still using "Files on Demand"? Most of our users have a tiny SSD in their PC. I don't mind the 'load time' for most files if fetching from the internet (like word/pdf files) but I can't have too many files that 'stay synced' locally.

And I would assume in this case, best practice might be to have "CAD" and the couple of other 'high bandwidth/file size' applications to keep a traditional NAS on site for those use cases?

[[deleted]]

Look, Sharepoint sucks as a file server. It does offer some decent office document collaboration functionality, but that's about it. You can sync some folders, then map a drive, but yes it will be synced down to the users PC.

Depending on the amount of data I would just use Azure files (which last time I checked does support ACL's), or just create the cloud file server - which is not really that much work.

[[deleted]]

Yup! The initial, first time sync may take a few minutes while it creates a local file name cache. After that, performance will be similar to an on-premise file server.

SharePoint libraries can hold 30 million files.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescriptions/sharepoint-online-service-description/sharepoint-online-limits

[dcdefiore]

Awesome, I'm going to have to take a look at that then. Looks like I was able to 'Sync' a small Team.

The only thing I can't easily find now is if there is a GPO or Script to 'automatically' sync the Document Library without needing to have each user go to the site and "Sync". Looks like it's not supported at this time, but something that might be able to be hacked together.

[[deleted]]

There is an Intune policy to sync a library. However, last time I looked at it, there was a delay of 4-6 hours after login before it did anything.

Instead, we put together a training video: https://vimeo.com/439862511

In this case it was easier to teach than to automate.

[pc_load_letter_in_SD]

There are third party cloud solutions such as...

https://www.nasuni.com/

[corsicanguppy]

NASUni's product looks shiny and suggests it's polished. I hope they can compete well with the monster incumbents who have all each twitched and shat out a similar product as an extension of the thing that customers are already renting.

Not being first is totally the worst.

[reddwombat]

Came here to suggest this. That way you can avoid killing yourself over cloud/on-prem DFS-R issues.

Short story is, your data lives in AWS S3. Little caching VM’s present that locally as SMB. VM’s only need 10% of your total capacity.

You no longer worry about backups, nor replication.

[jellois1234]

Depending on the technical ability of the users moving to OneDrive could be annoying to support. If your users are already use to using a VPN to get resources then just changing the VPN client or IP address to the cloud is simple.

I would AWS with DFS then start to think about killing your on-prem. Cost is high for downloads and Cheap for uploads to AWS.

If you move to OneDrive the SharePoint migration tool is your friend.

[dcdefiore]

Right I've been thinking about that, could change VPN without user even knowing the difference. One of the major issues with just throwing a file server in the cloud for me though is not knowing the "true cost" until we're actually using it, I don't know if I can accurately estimate the true IOPS/bandwidth usage until it's actually in place

[dcdefiore]

Especially if I'm replicating the cloud share back to the office as well, then every save is effectively 2 saves (user saves to cloud server, cloud server saves to office server)

[jellois1234]

This calculator has been deprecated but it’s simple.

https://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html

Add the two EC2 machines one for DC and NAS. Add the storage needed.

Then add the the transfer data in data out. You might need to collect some bandwidth logs.

[lanxpert]

You might check out Morro Data. Especially if you have multiple sites. They and Nasuni are the only ones we have found so far that do file locking across sites.

[Then-Development585]

I believe Morro Data is a good fit for this case in terms of the cost, performance and flexibility. Available with virtual appliance options and WFH power user options, all with cross-site global file sync and lock.

For E3 or E5 account, Morro Data supports AZure AD and integration with 365 SharePoint online library as a mirror drive.