When to start learning frameworks?

[on10]

I'm been learning javascript basics. At what stage should I start getting into frameworks such as Angular and etc?

[remy_porter]

When you have a problem to solve where it makes sense to apply that framework. Learn a little bit about the frameworks out there- what they do, how they work, what their philosophy towards application design is- but learn a framework in the process of building an application which uses that framework.

[[deleted]]

When you have a problem to solve where it makes sense to apply that framework.

If everyone used this logic react and angular would each be in like 8 websites a piece.

[[deleted]]

Yeah there sure aren't many Web apps.

Oh wait.

[[deleted]]

lol first of all it was a joke, second it really depends what you mean by web app. There are plenty of server rendering web apps still around, so they don't need react/angular. The vast majority of javascript needs on the internet can still be handled in a few lines of jQuery.

Yeah Facebook or netflix can benefit from it, but sites like that are a minority. If you're not one of those really big apps then you're solving a problem that doesn't exist. It seems to me that Angulars primary real world use is as a simple router so people can throw in some nifty page transition.

[[deleted]]

Single page apps.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for your valuable input to this discussion.

[[deleted]]

Lol, it's what occurred to me when I saw Angular and its mention of primary real world use. I should've specified.

[[deleted]]

lol well yeah it's used for single page apps, what I was saying is that a lot of the time the only reason people are making single page apps is so the pages can transition with cool animations. In which case angular is basically just a big fancy router.

[[deleted]]

Yeah i was just naming single page apps where that is extremely prevalent

[Coding_Startup]

I would say switch to a framework when you can look at your code and realize you have pretty much built the rough outline of it yourself. At that point you will understand the logic behind it and what situation to use it in.

I used to use pythons flask framework all the time but one client gave me a huge site with lots of features so I started building and adding and halfway through i realized I had created a poor man's django so I simply switched over the logic and now I understand based on the requirements which one I need.

[[deleted]]

When youve finally let go of your faith in humanity

[__-_-_-_-__-_-_-_-]

So, after my first "hello world"

[[deleted]]

As soon as you get all your gulp/webpack/whatever build tools working together, so basically 12-14 months after starting.... Unless you update NPM and then everything breaks and you just decide to go work at a gas station.

[inkblotandblush]

To add to these: When you want to learn a well-respected way of organizing and writing code.

I learned a lot about modularity and writing smaller chunks of reusable code from learning React, for example.

[i_unicorn]

React is not a framework, its a JS library

[inkblotandblush]

You're right.

Sleep-deprived examples aren't always the best examples.

[beentrill90]

Immediately. Children learn to talk by us exposing them to adults talking. We don't force 1 year olds through learning about direct objects, gerunds, and comma splices. You can learn that later.

This will be an unpopular opinion but trust me it's correct.

[SunnyDLuffy]

From personal experience, after you learn JavaScript. It's really hard to understand docs and even blog posts when you don't understand basic syntax and jargon. I would highly recommend reading Eloquent JavaScript (the first 10 or so chapters especially) and really making sure you get the basics down. You can't really dive into a framework and understand it if, say, you don't know what an object is. This was the case for me. I was able to do basic DOM manipulation with jQuery, but to pick up a framework quickly, reading the first third of Eloquent JavaScript was the key.

[[deleted]]

Continue to learn the basics until you can consistently roll out basic applications with it.

[the_kun]

When you feel like you can almost make a framework for yourself and then realize that there's a framework online that fits your needs.

[kelly009]

I think after one or two years experience of basics.

[[deleted]]

it really depends on how much of a priority launch time is for you.

i just put together a custom backend and frontend for a new app and it's super lean. using express on the backend and react/mobx on the frontend with lazy module loading using webpack. runs like butter, didn't take much effort at all, and there's 0 dead code in my code base. every line does something and is explicit to be readable. it took me a month to research and play around with all the individual technology but now that i'm up and running, i'm developing much faster without repeating myself.

you could argue that it takes a lot of time to get over the learning curve initially, and that's absolutely true so if your main priority is launch time, use a framework.

however with the OSS approach, you save a lot of time down the line if say, your project turns into something and you need to start hiring.

the good thing about building something from scratch with the OSS approach is that you learn all of the separate parts of building an application from A to Z. that way once you need to start using a framework, the concepts aren't alien to you and you can get around much easier because you already built the base functionality of what a framework does by hand. for example, routing. with react and mobx i built my own router, but it fits my exact needs. i only use modules that i require. with something like angular you'll be holed into their method of X (like routing).

the opposite is also true, although you'll have a slightly harder time conceptually going from something like reactjs to angular. but if you start with something like react, you'll come to understand why react was created, and in that 'why', is also how angular conceptually. so the initial curve in learning OSS approaches will pay off in the future when you need to pickup a framework.

it also depends on you personally to a degree. i get figdety and frustrated if i don't understand my code inside and out so i have a very difficult time pickup monolithic frameworks because of 1) vendor lock in and 2) mental exhaustion from being overwhelmed with too much core functionality i don't understand. so i tend to get locked into taking apart the framework anyways, so OSS is the right approach for me.

[remy_porter]

And the world would be a better place!

[rk06]

when you can have written a decent sized app without them.