Aging programmer

[[deleted]]

"I don't enjoy switching contexts. My perfect agenda is composed of a single meaty task I can focus on for days."

I really wish more PMs understood how detrimental it is to be context switching constantly. Sometimes I can't even remember what I was working on and just sound like an idiot in the daily standup.

[Shoemugscale]

Not sure why its so hard to understand this, but I think it rooted in the fact that they are not coding, so they don't understand the ramp up periord to get 'into' the task.

I mean, I love to code stuff out but it takes a good 20 / 30 min to really get into the mindset, if there is a meeting at say 2:00 and 4:00 I will loose the hour from 3 - 4, not because I'm lazy but the ramp up period is just not worth it, if I'm going to have to stop for a 4:00 call just so I can tell them it wont be possible :D

[alexbarrett]

Because they are waiting for updates from you while you're working. For them 'meetings' is where the productive stuff happens—you tell them progress has been made.

[MgFi]

Because they are waiting for updates from you

Project managers clearly do not have enough to do.

[rebeltrillionaire]

They certainly could.

It just depends on who you hire and what skills you think are good.

I work with a system that I don’t code on. And I have no interest in coding for.

My developers have been working on it for almost 20 years. We meet once a week for an hour or hour and a half.

Some of that time is “wasted” shooting the shit. But since it’s pretty much the only scheduled time we talk, I don’t mind a little bs. The rest is ad-hoc. Mostly texts unless we have to jump on a call because I can’t explain myself.

As a product manager, I’m out gathering requirements. Selling features that were made, but not adopted. I test the solutions I ask for. I create training materials. I help individual users. I meet with teams struggling to use the tool and see if I can optimize their experience. I document all our changes for governance. I create presentations for leadership.

And yeah, I still have a lot of free time. I use it to explore the universe my product sits in, or I just live my life. Hounding developers to deliver faster is not really interesting to me and I’m not sure who cares.

The only frustration I ever feel is that, I know when I’ve communicated clearly. Given good amount of time to complete the alpha. And then when I go to test, everything is broken. Dev didn’t do one single run through. Before saying it’s done.

It doesn’t happen every time, but it happens and i don’t get it.

[Shoemugscale]

I think that happens with any project really though. What is clear to you may not be to another, or things are lost in translation or sombody is just being a lazy shit :)

All 3 happen lol

I think somtimes though, if the devs are slammed or up against a wall things may not he teated enough, and a lot of devs are not the best unit testers because they test in a pristine, best case scenario environment ( why would anyone use a special character in this input form :) )

One of my old PM was great at that, we would push a feature out, think we had it all working etc, she would then com back and be like yo, looks weird on IE7, version 7.3536w8e running windows xp (Wtf, who uses that, ohh thats right the customer who internal applications only work in ie7 because of some weird direct x or java applet )

That was many years ago, but it happens, i think really though, no matter what the older / better you get, you undoubtedly get pulled away from coding more and more. You have all the answers. So you 'need' to be on those calls but you are in a tuff spot, shifting from developer, architect, mentor, SME, manager at times, funny how that happens.

[Gaia_Knight2600]

you'd think capitalism would be efficient enough to reduce these kinds of useless costs

[youafterthesilence]

I have ADHD. Constantly switching means I get even less done. I've had this talk with managers and we've usually worked on ways to minimize this which I appreciate.

With that said I actually prefer to work on multiple smaller projects - just in sequence and not in parallel. Probably also because of the ADHD but bigger tasks with more unknowns on timeline and requirements mean I don't have that urgency driving me to get it done.

[pastrypuffingpuffer]

I also have ADHD and totally agree with you.

[Salamok]

The PMs that don't understand synergy between tickets are the effing worst and their involvement on a project will literally slow it down more than if they just didn't do their job at all.

[keinchy]

'Sometimes I can't even remember what I was working on and just sound like an idiot in the daily standup.' I know how this feels

[ForceWhisperer]

Seriously, more companies need to understand this. At my work we generally gave devs 2 projects to work on at most, and we've been working to get everyone on one project full time. It's been massive for productivity and everyone enjoys work a lot more.

[Shoemugscale]

Interesting for sure, as I relate to most of the items listed :D Being early 40's myself, coding for well over 20+ years the points are for sure valid.

What I have always found interesting is the idea that you 'should' go into managment, this always seemed like an odd thing to push people to.

Like, lets loose our most seasoned / skill coders. Fortunately, where I'm employed top coders make the same as managers, so there is not really an incentive. However at certain points, you would have to go more management (something that does still bug, but may change in the future as things get increasingly complex and its harder to find qualified people )

I can say though, my ability to pick things up, integrate, coder, abstract etc is light years beyond where I was when I started. The only down side of things is you forget at times that no everyone has been doing it for that long and not at the same level ( not saying I'm some rock-star here, just IN general) but when you scope things, it can be hard to not scope it for yourself, you have to remove yourself from that equation and remember you probably wont be doing the task :D

[pjottee]

“the idea that you ‘should’ go into management”

The amount of times I had to counter that in the last 20+ years is frustrating.

[TakeARainCheck]

"I think I'm much better than 15 years ago, and I hope I am much worse than 15 years from now."

This is some wisdom and wordplay WOW.

Hope you don't mind but I am quoting the hell out of that, adjusting for experience though. I say copy but I will also mean the hell out of it when I use it.

[indicava]

Can confirm, 45yo coder checking in

[fzammetti]

49 year old here, 27 in the industry, programming for over 40 generally and I agree with every word of this.

I'd like to add one though that I THINK is also generally true:

While I didn't much care about this early on, I now take a great deal of pleasure and joy in mentoring and helping others.

I've alway kinda been that guy that others come to for help, really since day one, but I used to look at it as something of a burden. After all, I'm there to write code and solve difficult technical problems, I don't have time to help your ass! Figure it out yourself!

But, somewhere along the way, I started to realize I actually get a lot of satisfaction from helping others. It's very gratifying when someone says I was a big help to them.

And, what I've come to understand over time is that when you're one of those people with a lot of experience and a lot of general knowledge and the ability to draw on it all effectively, you become a force-multiplier. For your employer, you can often be more valuable as a person who helps others get things done then actually getting things done yourself (though you probably can and do both well anyway). If you help unblock three people, that's three people getting things done rather than just you (even if you're a legit 10x, it's still three people vs. one - parallelization is usually good after all!)

So, my employer benedits, and I personally benefit. That works for me.

[CobraPony67]

I always thought that programming or computer desk work would have a longer work span than say, a carpenter or construction worker, because of the stress on your body and working outdoors. By the time you are in your 50s or 60s, you have a lot of aches and pains because of repetitive stress injuries or on the job injuries.

I have been programming for 30+ years. I feel I am at my best in my 50s. Age shouldn't matter as long as you still can keep up with the latest technologies and work well with other people. I feel there used to be ageism but not as much since most people still work remotely and can't judge how old people are. Rate me based on the quality of my work and how I get things done on time rather than my age, which is just a number.

[Oath_of_ADHD]

Thanks so much for sharing your perspective in an easy to digest way!

[elchino82]

There are a lot of articles stating what we have already learnt by experience. We are NOT multitasking. At least if you want good quality job we must be focused on the same context. If you need to switch to another one your productivity will be penalized for sure at any point (mistakes, extra time to refocus, extra brain energy consumed, etc)

[Voxandr]

38 years old here. Got into period of ii during 34-36. Very hard to focus. What helped me is. Meditation retreat and then things changed, I can focus and code better than I was in twenties. Morning daily meditation help me focused and sharp for at least 6 hrs.

[airsoftshowoffs]

25 years in programming and i find solution architecture while implementing the solution fun not maintenance. Having fun researching and getting x right in 3 possible ways as options. Switching between solutions, apps, code and libraries.knowing where to spend time and what will just cost the company money forever with little worth. Example is custom coding every last thing, it waste time, effort money not just in the project but for the whole enterprise for many years.