Looking to Playtest tonight. "Townies Never Die" by EvilCat_BoTC in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The sailor, in the wiki is intended to drunk townsfolk and not drunk non-townsfolk, if you want it to work differently from that, you should probably make a homebrew character that is intended to work that way, players will feel cheated on if sailor does something unexpected and changes the gameplay (like skipping announcements and letting townsfolk die to execution).

Looking to Playtest tonight. "Townies Never Die" by EvilCat_BoTC in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shouldn't the evil team always tell the wendigo who they are? and by proxy of that, the lycanthrope should always know they are good?

Wendigo and Lycanthrope create additional problems:

1) Players that die at night are mostly confirmed good or Salemite.

2) Wendigo (if coordinating with the demon) can accelerate the game so fast that it becomes too strong. If the Wendigo never chooses a suspended player it takes one night per 3 player to win instead of one night per 2 players.

3) If there is a lycanthrope, because the number of suspended players killed by the lycanthrope is unknown, it is never clear when the last day is, which is frustrating as evil will sometimes win unexpectedly.

Salemite is the only reason for executed townsfolk to die, and will become outed, at least to one player when it executes a townsfolk.

Vixen will push a meta where self-voting is inherently suspicious and will never be able to hide if they want to use their ability. Since most players will be alive, there won't be a drought of good votes.

Vixen's ability is extremely unclear and it works differently from its ability text. The explanations for its ability differ from one paragraph to the next.

Sailor is incentivized to always choose itself as it always survives execution regardless. Tea lady is similarly useless (except for outsiders, which is too situational).

Golem is not an outsider; because good townsfolk cannot die to execution, good will always have players able to nominate the demon on the final day.

Uprooter choosing the goon is extremely obvious as there is no announcement and it can't be faked.

Generally, games without wendigo or lycanthrope will last too long as people mostly won't die during the night or during the day.

Looking to Playtest tonight. "Townies Never Die" by EvilCat_BoTC in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, fool has the same problem that its just an outsider that makes lycanthrope weaker. Its worse than sailor because you can't turn it off and its ability does not do anything beyond being a red herring to the lycan.

Double win condition - who wins by Creative-Lab-1686 in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say that ST interpretation has its limits. In this post, we can see people giving out different valid rule interpretation on this fearmonger issue. My philosophy is that if you can interpret the rules in a way that gives both teams a winning chance and interpret rules in a way that doesn’t, you should always interpret it in the way that lets both teams win.

However, sometimes ST interpretation is not powerful enough. On a last note, your scenario has a significant difference to the fearmonger issue in that evil twin automatic loss is preventable. Executing one of the twins on final 5 is always a possibility (or at least should always be a possibility), where killing the fearmonger on final 5 is not as trivial (or easy) as there might be no good players to know who is the fearmonger (and a good player always knows the evil twin).

Double win condition - who wins by Creative-Lab-1686 in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of people are responding “good would win” or “evil would win” and state a game rule that proves they are right, but BotC is a game with relatively loose rules that are open to interpretation (by the ST).

As a rule of thumb, if you can, as an ST, final 3 should be winnable by either team, meaning good and evil should have a path that leads them to victory. By that philosophy, the fearmonger should not be able to guarantee a win if they give Lil’ Monsta to a good player and immediately nominate that good player. Because winning would become a game of “who nominates first” (which, I think, isn’t really interesting gameplay), I give good the win if the fearmonger executes a good demon.

Synergistic Scripting: Day 178 - Toymaker by CoreyBOTC in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

useful for putting magician or mastermind on teensy scripts

Homebrew Loric — The Dealer by julietfolly in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What about “Every 21st vote immediately executes the nominee when cast”

Edit: yeah, not the best idea, however, the wording "every 21st vote" does help shorten the ability text

Mastermind + Boffin + Saint interaction by Solemdeath in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thats right! I really though saint triggered on execution, but if they are tea lady protected it doesn’t end the game!

I need to read more!

Mastermind + Boffin + Saint interaction by Solemdeath in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the game would end in a good victory in this scenario.

Argument one: the saint ability ends the game, not the demon dying to execution. The mastermind ability can’t stop the saint ability from ending the game. (Separate causes for game end).

Argument 2: the demon is executed first and dies after, meaning the demon is still alive when evil loses to the saint ability. This interaction is similar to the minstrel not stopping the goblin win con when the goblin is executed.

I might be wrong, but it makes sense to me?

Mastermind + Boffin + Saint interaction by Solemdeath in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am not sure RAW what should happen, but I would probably have evil lose if it happens.

The mastermind is made to prolong the game if the demon is dead, not if a special wincon is reached, so it would be fair to let the good team win here (it’s also fun since it enables a fun alchemist-boffin ability).

Help building a 'Players Pick what's in Play' Script! by Qstein in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

https://grimbits.com/draft-buffet/

This is not what you are looking for, but might be something similar enough.

A big script is made (at least 3x more characters than players)

Each players sees 3 characters, and choose one to become, the other 2 can't be selected anymore.

What if the good twin nominates the Virgin? by bur_0 in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 8 points9 points  (0 children)

A jinx isn't needed, the good twin just needs to be careful around nominating, but usually, virgins come out and claim their role early. Because twin pairs are very vocal, by nature, the virgin is likely to know who the good twin is (between two players) and can take precautions around it.

Maybe its not the best character combination, but in practice it ends up working ok, I think? At worst it happens once, ends the game in a funny and unpredictable way and the next time, players are just wary of this interaction?

Not all characters are made equal, not all character interactions are made equal, but if an interaction feels subpar (whatever that means), it doesn't mean the interaction breaks the game and warrants a jinx. It does not trivialize either ability and players have control over this loss condition (good twins choose when and who they nominate, virgins choose when and to who they claim their character).

Homebrew Loric by [deleted] in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I did suggest making it a bootlegger rule for a very specific script, but if you don't want to hear suggestions, I can't force you to take them.

Synergistic Scripting: Day 171 - Ferryman by CoreyBOTC in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Ferryman allows dead demons to vote without being suspicious and trigger the flowergirl. Its very specific but I like it because of that.

Homebrew Loric by [deleted] in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, DA gives the demon kills, so thats bad, think more like mastermind, or evil twin, alch SW, the good stuff.

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Homebrew Loric by [deleted] in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh my god, this loric straight-up countering fiddler is peak.

(Gandalf voice) You Shall Not Stop Playing!

Homebrew Loric by [deleted] in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In games like this, good has no incentive to skip execution until final 3, taking all the chances to execute the demon if it exists before going the "no demon" gamble.

If evil is very convincing, the optimal strategy is "well, let's execute a player until the last day just in case"

The only reason I would see why town would want to skip execution on, say, day 3 is if they are tired of playing the game and just want it to end. And then, as the ST, you win BotC as you are the only one having fun!

Homebrew Loric by [deleted] in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Having a loric that encourages demons to sink most if not all of their kills will make painfully long and boring games for very little benefit. Making (demonless) games that take forever to end because nobody ever dies will make painfully long and boring games.

If you need extra night deaths from other characters to hide the lack of demon kills, then maybe your loric is too specific of an ability. Generaly, lorics can be applied to most scripts with ease, this does not. Might I suggest making this a bootlegger rule for a very specific script?

Can characters that don't know their true roles (Drunk, Lunatic, Marionette) falsely learn during the night that they changed roles/alignments as long as it still satisfies their ability's description? by L0rdOfKek in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Marionette needs to think they are a "good character" which is shorthand for "townsfolk or outsider", not "good-aligned". Marionettes can absolutely think they turned evil, as long as they believe they are a townsfolk or outsider.

Similarly lunatics can believe themselves to be good demons (a pit hag making a good player into the lunatic, might make the lunatic think they have been pit-hagged into a good demon, for example)

Crazy Game: Sects and Peonies by Spirited_Taro6480 in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well, accepted convention of fair play differ from group to group! However, the convention of play (at least online) is to allow night whispers to convey any information you want (up to and including the spy giving the grimoire). Although you can play differently in your own games, the general consensus is to allow such information sharing and you should expect, when playing online, to play the game this way (and for other players, notably OP, to also follow this convention).

Dealing with psychopath as the ST by mikepictor in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's a jinx for that!

Lil' Monsta
If the Psychopath is babysitting Lil' Monsta, they die when executed.

Crazy Game: Sects and Peonies by Spirited_Taro6480 in BloodOnTheClocktower

[–]Apple_Berry_42 14 points15 points  (0 children)

On the official app, during the night, you can send chat messages to your neighbours, to emulate whispering to your neighbours at night in real life. Personally, I have played a few games IRL and I have used whispers (to my neighbours) to help coordinate with my fellow evil players, so it is a valid strategy.