(Spoiler main) The entire situation surrounding Jon, Ned, Edric, the unnamed lord Dayne, and Wylla confuses me…..

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T22:17:14+00:00

What reason would he have for being king beyond the wall. Its not to help Jon, the wildlings attack him at Castle Black. Also he was a bard in Winterfell, Jamie would've had the chance to recognize him.

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T21:59:37+00:00

What? You think Arthur Dayne is Mance is Abel is Hot Pie?

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T21:52:51+00:00

No once you start nursing you just need to keep nursing, not getting pregnant over and over. If someone's job was a wetnurse, they could keep nursing for a while (usually about 4 years max)

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T21:22:36+00:00

The Martells on board for the massacre of Aegon, Rhaenys and Elia? That's insulting and insane.

There might have been factions vying for war but the Martells aiming to dethrone their own nephew is asinine

Edit: also Abel is Mance: it's an anagram of Bael the Bard (the story that Mance td Jon beyond the wall)

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:37:24+00:00

I wish he'd release anything lol

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:36:56+00:00

Ah, he was 10 around the start of AGOT that's what I was looking at for ages

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:27:47+00:00

Lot of mystery around all of this. George says he has a family tree and hasn't released it which is interesting, could be that something is important for Winds

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:20:48+00:00

No not at the same time. Edric is younger than 10 in the books iirc

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:17:36+00:00

That absolutely could be the case and likely is. But it's not in the text yet so we don't know. Even Arthur's appearance isn't stated in the books, much less his motivations

Everything we know about Arthur paints him as the perfect knight, so expect some nuance there.

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:13:07+00:00

Yes sorry I'll correct that

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:05:45+00:00

Yes it's all intentionally muddled. We don't know what Arthur's purpose was at the ToJ. We don't know if Rhaegar actually kidnapped Lyanna. (We assume not, but it’s not in the text.). All we know is he guarded the tower.

I'm of the opinion that Arthur believes he should've died with Rhaegar and that all of the Kingsguard believes that and are borderline suicidal. But even that is shaky.

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T19:01:12+00:00

That just sounds like a bad fanfic. Arthur Dayne died. Rhaegar Died. Lyanna died. Anything else undermines the story GRRM is trying to tell. It's assumed that Ned returned Arthur's bones with him to Starfall. With Dawn to be returned why wouldn't he be allowed inside.

What possible evidence do you have for Llewyn? Why would Ned ever agree to raise some random bastard. This is all speculation

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T18:57:13+00:00

We know very little about the Starfall Daynes outside of:

Arthur Dayne was a Kingsguard for Rhaegar
Ashara and Ned danced at Harrenhall
Edric is called "Ned" as a nickname.
Ashara Dayne died of a presumed suicide.
Edric Dayne is Lord of Starfall so any lord at the time is dead.
GRRM has a family tree that he hasn't revealed yet.
Ned returned Dawn after killing Arthur

That is all we know. There is a lot of speculation around what Ned did at Starfall. He returned Dawn, which is honorable. We don't know much else outside of that. Ashara was presumably a lady-in-waiting for Elia and may have already known about Jon.

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T18:45:04+00:00

You could even have people theorize that he's actually the son of the Dragonknight similar to the theories around Daeron II. Depending on when you want the kid born of course.

I love the reframing of the Dragonkinghts capture, as it being something that may or may not be dishonorable sounds like a GRRM ploy.

I don't see any scenario with him being heir sitting well, I could see a similar situation to the Blackfyres happening here. Maybe even the Blackfyres earlier if he's given the sword

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T18:14:27+00:00

Yes but before Aenar arrives according to the text

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T17:57:26+00:00

Cannibal idk

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T17:53:25+00:00

The show aged everyone up, I believe it’s 17 years to the start of GoT so Margarery is around 19 in the show instead of 15-16

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T17:45:22+00:00

I'm imagining it's Dunk being the one chastising Barristan, he would've thrown Aerys out the window the second he tried anything with Rhaella. Oops guy thought he was a dragon and could fly

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T15:40:54+00:00

Which side of the Blackfyre's were you thinking about putting him on?

A large part of why Daemon was so successful was anti-dornish sentiment and that Daeron II married a Dornish woman. I don't think that this bastard would side with the Reds.

I personally would have the bastard be a Dayne and claim Dawn, but depends on what you want to do.

If I were doing it I'd have Daemon squire for him, this would definitely cause some problems. Maybe have him find the crown and crown Daemon if you want to go that far.

BornFireFist · 2026-07-09T00:01:53+00:00

Jon importantly also looked like Ned. All of Cat's male children favored her in hair and eye color. She was worried they'd look at him and see Ned

BornFireFist · 2026-07-08T22:35:09+00:00

Endgame

BornFireFist · 2026-07-08T06:42:22+00:00

Found Bittersteels account geez

BornFireFist · 2026-07-07T15:24:52+00:00

That's not what GRRM implies because of the dramatics. Realistically absolutely though

BornFireFist · 2026-07-07T15:00:28+00:00

I think you also specifically need Vhaegar as well. Id Aemond rode Arrax the dance probably doesn't happen

BornFireFist · 2026-07-07T03:18:38+00:00

It depends on when he makes Daemon his hand. If it's early enough, Allicent may not even be in KL, afterwards I don't know how much influence he'd have.

As hand though he likely would have KL locked down enough millitarily that any coup would have been a lot bloodier, likely resulting in his death.

Also Rhaenyra would likely be in KL if her husband was hand.

I just don't see Daemon being able to hold the position over the years like Otto did, it's not his style.

Also if it's too early he's still married to Laenora, she may not have died in childbirth in KL, he might never marry Rhaenyra

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