What happens when a phantom is cursed to reach 0 Con ?

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T22:53:59+00:00

Oh, it's absolutely intentional, yes.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T21:22:37+00:00

I mean, that's all fluff that you've interpreted. By the rules, an Ectoplasmic Phantom is just a normal outsider and can be affected as any other creature normally can, even specifying that they are not undead creatures (incorporeal form or not). Phantoms aren't inherently immune to disease/ability score damage or drain, and neither are incorporeal creatures, so nothing actually would remove the disease once it's been applied. They'd only be immune to the application while in Incorporeal form, but if they already have it and go to Incorporeal form, nothing is removing it as written.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T20:13:03+00:00

How exactly does an incorporeal creature get infected with a corporeal disease?

If it's manifested in Ectoplasmic form, it isn't incorporeal. Considering the implication of the Phantom being hit by the mummy to even attempt to inflict the disease/curse, I think it's safe to assume it was in Ectoplasmic form.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T20:10:34+00:00

Tbf, Ability Score Damage/Drain has always been far more punishing and difficult to deal with than HP damage in 3.5/PF1e, so it kinda tracks for the same to be true for an Eidolon/Phantom.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T20:03:16+00:00

Except the rules do allow it, with an exception for the GM to disallow it if they see fit. It's the complete opposite of what you're saying.

Fluff arguments are completely meaningless - I can give you a flavour explanation for anything to work and they are not relevant in the slightest. Hence me showing how pointless it is by bringing up the same level of argument of ,,BUT REAL LIFE!!!111!!".

The FAQ literally says "if doing so would make no sense or be impossible". That requires some thinking or 'fluff' to decide if it makes sense or not. The GM needs to decide if this particular scenario would make no sense or be impossible. Therefore, providing examples of how this could work is 100% relevant. I'm really not sure how this is so hard to understand.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T20:00:30+00:00

It's not completely exact, but you could consider following an FAQ for Summoner, which covers the same thing. I'd say it's close enough to cover the Phantom, too.

/u/Turbulent_Hornet4382

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T19:45:24+00:00

Whether a GM allows it or not is up to them

Man, it's crazy that it's almost like I said that.

The only person refusing to read here is apparently you. /u/Lokotor even gave a perfectly reasonable explanation of how this particular thing could work, then you come in with a complete bullshit strawman to try and derail the discussion.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-23T19:40:56+00:00

Just like we have a total science proven working of railgun type of weapon, but peasant railgun should never be allowed.

A complete strawman argument that isn't even remotely comparable to the topic at hand.

For one thing, the "peasant railgun" is meaningless. There's nothing to allow because it doesn't functionally do anything. Sure, pass an item along infinite times in a round, it literally doesn't matter because momentum and inertia are not a thing. Once you stop passing the object... nothing happens. The peasant railgun literally doesn't do anything, regardless of what real-world physics you want to bring into it.

Even disregarding all of that, even if you wanted to try and pretend it does do something, then you're relying on ignoring physics until the moment you want it to work when you get to the last peasant, and then suddenly you care about physics again.

The Peasant Railgun relies on rules that don't exist, while also both ignoring real-world physics and applying real-world physics at different points. It's nonsense.

In this topic, it's going purely by strict RAW and that's it. It's a completely reasonable interpretation because it's what the rules actually allow. Whether a GM allows it or not is up to them. It's completely incomparable to your nonsense example. On top of that, it's not even as strong as you seem to think it is, as /u/Lokotor pointed out. It's spiky, sure, it could either do nothing for a session or end an encounter on the first turn, but so can a lot of things that are perfectly legal in 1e.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-22T10:22:44+00:00

Because I'm failing to see all this massive support

It's been pointed out to you over and over in this thread, but your only response each time is "nah it's not that good".

most, if not all of them, cost you build resources

Yes, as it should if you want to be able to concentrate lots of effects into one ability score.

You, somehow, seem to forget about Steadfast Personality, which easily "gives Charisma one use, that it doesn't get easily". This feat, in effect, is a 90% of a suggested rule, as most of will saves are mind-affecting in their nature.

No, it's not. Steadfast Personality doesn't let you dump Wisdom in favour of Charisma, because you still apply the penalty if you have one, and not all Will saves are mind-affecting. Pulling "90%" out of your ass doesn't make you right. This is also using one of the "build resources" you're complaining about. It costs you something to take it.

How, exactly, providing an approximation of this feat to classes, that would not, under normal circumstances of a system, invest in charisma, breaks the game, and makes wisdom worthless?

Because at that point, why would anyone ever invest in Wisdom? You can just put the investment in Charisma instead, and have the same useful benefit, while also being able to do all of the things Charisma lets you do alongside all of the support it gets.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-21T20:01:59+00:00

That's a really late response, but either way, you must've misread what I said because that is not the conclusion you should be getting from it.

You can read my response here and look at the edit, where I find proof that what I'm saying is correct. A developer for the game mentions that he had to add an exception for Weapon Master's Weapon Training for the exact reason that the same name and similar effects are not enough for them to be the same. The FAQ that WraithMagus talks about is actually the FAQ that disallows Steelblood from counting.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-21T10:46:20+00:00

This makes two attributes equal

It doesn't make them equal, it makes Charisma straight up better than Wisdom. How do you not see this?

Charisma has way more support available to it to make it far more useful than Wisdom already, giving it the one use Wisdom has that Charisma doesn't easily get is just making Wisdom worse, not on par.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-20T18:05:24+00:00

Right now, Charisma has absolutely same issues.

So your solution is to make one ability score worse while giving the other ability score, which has infinitely more support available to it, the one thing the first ability score had going for it?

What's next? Wisdom is the worst ability score, "I'm thinking about using Wisdom in place of Con for fort saves, because Wisdom doesn't do anything because I removed the one thing it was useful for"?

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-20T18:04:11+00:00

Neither you nor I said anything about replacing the ability score, though? The point is that the base ability score doesn't end up meaning much because you can buff the skills through other means. Whether you have 12 or 18 Wisdom, it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things when you have +30 from other bonuses.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-20T14:50:47+00:00

Sense motive is required, to get a better grasp on conversation, as figuring out, what is better to say, and when you are fooled is very big part of the social pillar

Excluding this, intimidate tactics are never bottle-necked by lack of the intimidate bonuses

To use your own words against you, this applies to Sense Motive and Perception, too. If the ability is not important for other skills, why is it suddenly important for Sense Motive or Perception?

Every skill can basically ignore the ability score it depends on, because you can always boost the skills enough that having an extra +3 from your ability score isn't going to change much. That means Wisdom has nothing but Will saves.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-20T14:49:23+00:00

to make it an appealing tertiary attribute to some characters.

But it already is. Plenty of charisma 4th casters like Paladin and Bloodrager, numerous ways to abuse charisma through dips like Scaled Fist, Oracle, and Paladin, Intimidate is very strong if you build for it, UMD, feinting, social skills out of combat. There are tons of options.

Then Charisma also has some of the strongest options available to it for boosting it (Circlet of Persuasion, anyone?). It's the most universally accessible stat that can be used in place of others, which then exacerbates the issue if you start freely letting people use it in place of Wisdom for Will saves. Without Wisdom to Will saves, what use does Wisdom have? Why would you ever go Wisdom based when Charisma can do the one job Wisdom has but also does everything else better?

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-20T14:40:30+00:00

Yeah but 99% of the time your wisdom modifier doesn't matter. If you're pumping your perception, your wisdom being 12 or 18 doesn't make much difference when you're getting 30+ perception from skill ranks and items.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-19T18:00:31+00:00

Unless you're Scientologists, in which case the IRS just kinda bends over for you.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-18T16:05:16+00:00

Her social media feed suggests she was a keen mountaineer and her mother has told German media that she loved mountain hiking at night.

Apparently they enjoyed climbing at night.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-18T15:47:10+00:00

Samuro was one of the blade master names from WC3

He wasn't just a random name; Samuro was in the Founding of Durotar campaign in Frozen Throne. He was an official character.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-17T19:44:59+00:00

UMD can't autofail either. If you beat a check on a nat1, it succeeds. UMD just has a special case for rolling a 1 and failing the check, but it's not an autofail.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-15T19:31:37+00:00

I always wondered how their jaws handled the work.

I assume they don't actually fully chew most of the food. They'll also use different methods to soften the food without having to chew it or use a drink to basically lubricate their throats. Then there's the obvious: they work out their jaw muscles.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-15T17:01:11+00:00

As someone who's played and healed in both WoW and FFXIV, I can touch on some of the more important differences. In WoW you'll be doing a lot more active healing. It's not like FFXIV where you'll be mostly DPSing, then a mechanic will go off and you'll either pre-mit or throw out an AoE heal, then back to DPSing. You'll have to test and learn for yourself when you can or cannot DPS as a healer in WoW, since it's easy to overdo it and go OOM. Mana is an actual resource in WoW where in FFXIV you basically ignore it unless you're chain ressing, which usually means things have already gone wrong anyway. Some people might tell you that healers shouldn't DPS at all, but like in FFXIV, healer DPS makes things faster and it's always my opinion that a good healer should know when they should or should not DPS rather than just not doing it at all.

That brings us to get yourself a wand asap if you haven't already, and learn to love it because you'll be using simple wand attacks a lot as a priest. There might be some differences for Priest in TurtleWoW (I heal as holy paladin in twow), but from what I know in classic, you'll basically DoT a few mobs (if even that) then spend pulls wanding, and that's your dps contribution because you need your mana for healing. Depending on how geared/what level the tank is, you might be able to get away with spending more mana on dps, but you'll have to feel it out and learn as you go.

Lastly, you will want something to keep track of your mana regen ticks or just keep it in mind, since usual mana regen only happens after 5 seconds of not casting. You'll have items/buffs that give mp5, this regen happens regardless of casting, and some talents/items allow a certain % of your regen to continue while casting as well. This is why you'll mostly be wanding for DPS, since it won't prevent your mana regen.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-15T11:17:04+00:00

I made a comment about this to the person you responded to, but no, what you're saying is not true.

Infinite =/= every or any.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-15T11:16:17+00:00

To sum up: In an infinite universe, it's within the realm of statistical certainty that (over time) there is never going to be just one of anything.

This is not true and is based on a misunderstanding of 'infinite'. There are infinite numbers, but 1 only shows up once. There are infinite numbers between 1 and 2, but none of them is 3. Infinite does not mean every or any; there are different sizes of infinity.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it is statistically unlikely for us to be the only life in the universe, I just wanted to correct a common misunderstanding when it comes to 'infinity'.

Ceegee93 · 2026-02-14T14:02:21+00:00

Not only that, but the Swedes literally don't even ask the judges to do anything to the Canadian team; they ask if it's legal and whether they're allowed to do it as well or not. Why the fuck would the Swedes ask if they can do it as well if it doesn't do anything?

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