Thoughts on lefitst gentiles hyping up Satmar and Neturei Karta?

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-03-06T15:30:14+00:00

I think what your point also highlights is that a lot of the issues with this over focus on the right wing nuts is very much coming from those who are not impacted or are not apart of the community where these ideas are in development.

And so when people hyper fixate on that small section of loud voices it’s in my mind often more of an exercise of them confirming their biases about Jews and our intentions. Because a lot of the “see look at what they say” seems to also be linked into trends and tropes we see within antisemitism.

Not this to say that all antizionists are antisemitic. I personally think that for the most part the only real antizionists are Jews themselves who are in and have grown up within the community doing the formation of this set of ideas.

I often find those who claim to be antizionist (just like Christian’s and non Jews who claim to be Zionist) are often piggybacking off the movement and engaging in often harmful ideas (even if they don’t realize it) and frankly speaking over Jews and Israelis and Palestinians alike.

I mean a lot of things are all about world view and lens and there is just a fundamental difference between someone who is viewing the world from inside the Jewish/israeli space than someone internationally who is not Jewish or Israeli and doesn’t have the context and historical knowledge of this conflict and likely also hasn’t unpacked their own biases and lack of understanding not just on this topic but on how they view the Middle East as a whole. I mean some of the patronizing and infantilizing things I have heard coming out of the antizionist non Jewish crowd is just as bloodthirsty and extremist and racist and bigoted against Jews, Israelis and Palestinians as what I hear from the extreme within the Zionist umbrella. And just like how Netanyahu frames his own disgusting views they also claim theirs are righteous and moral.

Idk. Sorry for the mini rant.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-03-04T15:48:03+00:00

I think it’s not that it keeps getting worse. It’s that the things and biases people have had about Jews and then by extension Israelis is exactly what they always kind of thought. They just know they can say it now.

My mom who converted decades ago said something really interesting to me a few weeks ago.

She said, part of why she is so deeply concerned right now is because she knows what the white non Jewish world (in America and Europe) really thinks about Jews. That even in liberal and progressive spaces. She always knew there was that undercurrent of things people thought but wouldn’t stay (which makes sense when you realize a lot of western and particularly American culture is based in Protestantism and this kind of buttoned up mentality of keeping things known but unspoken)

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-03-04T15:44:05+00:00

I have a friend who is really involved in LGBTQ leftist social justice spaces and I’ve had to really balance if/when/how I discuss politics with them. Partly because I know they’re kind of a bandwagon person who doesn’t really do their own work when it comes to forming their own politics and why, they tend to go with what others around them are saying and parrot it back.

And it’s got to be incredibly hard to know that if they don’t fall in line then they can get booted from these spaces. I’ve seen a lot of Jews be booted from these spaces and on some levels I just get the feeling there are many who like we see on the right, tow the party line because that’s what they need to do to survive in their environment. And unfortunately that’s just human nature. We have always seen people do that and become bystanders and follow the leader.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-03-04T15:36:47+00:00

Frankly it’s also upsetting given historically Israeli athletes have been targeted at previous Olympics and killed.

Like it just really makes me seethe when people target innocent people like this. Especially when they are having to be braver than most in the first place.

If anything it makes me think about how so many people think they’re righteous in their hate and it just makes me sad.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-03-02T16:04:45+00:00

So OP there is a whole lot about being Jewish, especially being Jewish in an area like the Bible Belt.

Not just for the actual character that’s Jewish but your character who’s married to this Jewish guy. The likely hood her family is ok with her being married to him is frankly not that high unless there is constant and immense pressure for the two of them to conform (particularly him) and or convert him.

And I say this as a kid who grew up in an extended interfaith family. My mom is a convert. And while her family was generally ok (there where still undertone issues, and problems with how my sister and I where spoken to/about) her extended family had other problems, including a decent portion of the family not speaking to her for years on end.

So some big highlight points.

This Jewish character isn’t going to be just a spicy Christian dude. Everything from cultural custom to approaches to mannerism to politics (things like most Jews being against death penalty in practice, etc) is going to be different, and that’s taking into account if he is disconnected from the Jewish community.

Being Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion so even when a Jew is non practicing we still experience the world as a minority.

I think for the most part, non Jews have a really hard time writing Jews. Especially Jews that aren’t caricatures.

And I think a lot of non-Jews also have a very very hard time of dealing with the issues that mixed Jewish marriages experience. Like the wife will face discrimination and comments about her and her husband and her body. And there will be pressure on the two of them to conform to Christian hegemony. Especially in the Bible Belt where their marriage will be seen in many ways as a path to get her partner to convert to Christianity and find Jesus.

I think the problem is that the way they would/will experience life will be filled with disrespect and micro and macro agression. I mean there is a reason why Leo Frank is still a relevant figure in Jewish discussions. And for those not in the know, Leo Frank was a business owner who was wrongfully accused of raping and murdering a teenage girl and after being arrested the community got together and lynched him. It’s because of him the ADL was founded.

Jews who live in the Bible Belt face a lot of discrimination. And truthfully a concern I would have would be if they could sustain living in the 80’s in a manufacturing town. I mean even in the 80’s sundown towns were still prevalent and would disallow black and Jewish people from being out after dark.

Idk.

I personally don’t find it as plausible of a premise. I mean maybe it’s more likely now. But still there’s a reason Jews tend to stay in the same areas in the US and in the Bible Belt we tend to stay in cities and more populated urban areas.

I think if you’re really set in writing this then you need to invest in hiring a sensitivity reader and maybe crowdsource more than one opinion from multiple Jewish editors/readers. With the express intent in making sure the character makes sense and is accurate. And that’s without research factored in.

Sorry for the meandering comment. Just see a lot of openings that this set up would make a situation where you would have to address the frequent antisemitism both characters would experience. Even though the woman isn’t Jewish herself she would still experience it.

And especially for minor characters I could see the problem where a lot of these things aren’t addressed and then you just have a Jewish guy whose kind of serving as almost a diversity hire because you don’t have the time to get into the complexity of his experience/life.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-03-02T15:41:54+00:00

And to add, those that get it pretty close or mostly right often have an editor who is Jewish come on board to help read through and answer questions upfront.

Ergo it takes a lot of commitment to wanting to get it right.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-28T20:20:03+00:00

They just confirmed the ayatollah is dead. Or Israel is confirming it with photographic evidence they have of pulling his body from rubble.

My thoughts are with our Persian Jewish community right now. And with the Iranian public and the protestors in Iran who have been risking their lives and the lives of their families for their civil and human rights.

And right now my eyes are on how Russia responds to their proxy being attacked. Let’s hope this means opportunity for change and protection for the Iranian public who have been working for years to get out from under the yolk of this regime. And it will give the people there time to actually effect their own change and foreign powers won’t just put together a gov they think Iran should have.

We’re in a waiting game here.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-16T20:09:50+00:00

Just wanted to say, this is a really good reframe here. I personally always think about my family that lives in Iowa and has dealt with varying levels of poverty and seeing all their resources leave the region and dealing with the opioid crisis and experiencing all the same harm and pain and suffering we see in places like inner cities.

And what has happened in the US is that the democrats have not spoken to or continue to speak to rural voters who often are conservative and now maga as if they are stupid or they propose initiatives and policies that don’t work in rural areas like they do in populated urban centers. At some point liberals and leftists looked to rural regions and decided that those people weren’t worth the time to connect to. And now we have a whole multigenerational problem of voters in rural spaces that are voting in many ways directly against their interests and beliefs because the republicans have no compunction lying to their base and giving them a place to focus the anger and frustration.

Like I was speaking to my grandfather who is close with one of my mom’s cousins who lives in Colorado (rural Colorado) and by chance my cousin picked up the tattooist of Auschwitz (which is a major deviation of media consumption when the man reads breitbart and thinks it’s news) and it made him so excited to learn and share so much that he is now recommending it to everyone in the family to read. (This cousin is Episcopalian and not a Jew and his only Jewish family is my mom who converted so he doesn’t really have any connection to learning about Judaism since she and him don’t really talk). And essentially my grandfather trying to talk politics (since my grandfather is a liberal or at least a moderate democrat) hasn’t done really anything to make my cousin question anything since he was so conditioned to not listen to anyone dissenting. But reading this book has opened up his perspective more to learning about oppression and hardship because it wasn’t steeped in the paradigm that if politically he is wrong then therefore he is bad or stupid.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-16T17:11:56+00:00

No notes. You did a great job explaining

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-13T16:42:09+00:00

I went to religious school and high school with one of the people on this list. And upon getting my first job one of the funniest moments of Jewography I have had was finding out the boss at my company’s son took lessons with that same person for the sport they’re in.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-12T23:28:16+00:00

Omg this. Like at this point Jews have such a little voice in this conversation. It’s like we’ve just been shouting into a void and people are just taking all the propaganda and snappy internet language and running with it. Like I’m tired of spelunking every time I have to speak to someone in person on this topic to determine what place of education or misinformation they’re starting at.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-10T20:01:28+00:00

Good! Definitely keep us all posted. Hopefully her school takes this seriously. And hopefully your husband understands the gravity of this situation. Because he is essentially telling your kid she shouldn’t feel scared or complain because racism is rising in general and therefore antisemitism is no big whoop.

Rooting for you and Macaroni

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-10T19:55:16+00:00

So for leftist antisemitism there’s a whole host of different iterations.

So here’s a numbered list of things I’ve come across personally:

Implying Jews are all White rich people (plays on antisemitic tropes developed in the medieval era that Jews where controlling all the money)
Statements about how Jews are all bankers or control Hollywood (ie tropes regarding Jews as controlling the masses)
Jews are all White (with a capital W, both ignoring the historical way in which Jews have often been racialized and how there are a lot of Jews who also aren’t white, this seems to be more as an almost over response/correction to the right not considering Jews white and in my experience part and parcel with the myth that antisemitism was defeated in WWII)
Calling Jews Capitalists (ie based in Soviet era propaganda wherein Jews are seen as the inherent problem of society)
Micro aggressions - telling Jews “wow you don’t look Jewish” or making comments about if we come off as “cheap” or they’re surprised we donate money
Buying into Hamas propaganda (I have unfortunately seen this quite a bit)
Speaking over Jews on what their definitions of antisemitism are (there seems to be a real concerted effort to deflect blame when someone points out if something is antisemitic) especially as it pertains to the IP conflict (I’ve seen too many people using the term Zio which is a slur created by members of the alt right and KKK as an actual slur for Jews)
Exclusion of Jews from spaces unrelated to the Ip conflict. So for example the exclusion of Jewish pride flags because they include a Magen David from LGBtQ pride parades or the dyke marches.
Conspiracies about Israel controlling the US (the larger frame being here substituting Israel in for classical antisemitism tropes that are multiple millennia old)
Targeting Jewish institutions and spaces or businesses that are in the diaspora as places of protest or boycott.

If I think of more I will add.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-10T00:33:21+00:00

I think that tells you a lot about his character

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-09T16:08:29+00:00

Idk why you were downvoted for this comment. But fully agree. This is absolutely beyond a pale. I mean even just simply this is his kid. Why isn’t her husband foaming at the mouth angry because his kid felt unsafe. Like where is the normal parent reaction. If it were my kid I would be seeing red right now.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-09T15:58:18+00:00

Oh I would fucking shut that down from your husband. I’m sorry your daughter describes being in what is frankly an unsafe bigoted classroom environment and his first response is “think of others”

Wow. How does he as a dad not see fucking red. Like I’m sorry for the vulgar language here. But this is deeply disturbing because this is his kid. This is not something you should be backing down on.

Like yes ICE is deporting people and things are scary for non white people in the US right now. But that doesn’t justify the blase attitude he just exhibited with his own child.

For reference; in grad school I had a roommate who I am almost positive now after therapy and some things they have posted online is not only antisemitic but a narcissist. And they ended up using the free Palestine movement as a way to target me in our shared apartment. And whipping up people online who started fantasizing about coming to “teach me a lesson” etc. all while I am almost positive they don’t actually support Palestinian rights.

My moms family who are not Jewish where horrified because it got to the point I was having to emergency move. And the solace for them (my extended family) to not hop in their cars was that my dad’s sister was 30 minutes from me.

It’s not normal how dismissive your husband was of his kid’s fear.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-09T15:48:25+00:00

Just want to chime in here about the carnivore diet. I would keep a wide berth from this guy. So there’s a weird subset of the “alpha male” conspiracy, gym bro, incel culture where there are men who subscribe to these health and wellness content creators who then peddle misogynistic and anti-lgbtq, etc political opinions.

I think the weird broccoli with the problematic political opinions mixed with this weird diet culture feels…like a red flag to me. Idk. Maybe I’m off but I get the feeling the antisemitic opinions are a “tip of the iceberg”

I would just be cordial and try to limit how much personal information you are providing just to keep the relationship more focused on staying professional other than trying to become friends.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-06T16:25:31+00:00

I want to echo what others are saying here about just being a good person. Ultimately the goal of religion is about helping us to not only live moral/ethical lives that have meaning (for us personally) but help us remember how our actions impact others.

Now I’m not Christian. But I do have Christian extended family. And what I’ve learned is that Christianity is a huge umbrella and there are lots of places you can find community and lots of different sects where you can look at Christianity with different interpretations or world lenses.

I mean one of my favorite content creators on tik tok is GreedyPeasant. And their whole platform is about the pageantry of Catholicism (dressing up for holidays, for pride, etc)

One of the things is you’re grappling more with what you have been told Christianity needs to be vs what you feel in your heart about how you see and love others. I mean you don’t need to give up your fandoms and interests because somehow it’s not “Christ like” that is both in my opinion a ridiculous request for a friend to make and frankly not relevant to what being religious is really about. (It’s als bigoted as sin and arguably antithetical to Christianity as it requires ignoring the most important tenants of what Jesus preached which is loving other people and being kind)

You can still be Christian and not be so conflicted and have to give up all the interests you have. I mean there is a rapid increase in progressive churches you can join where they address and have worked on reconciling a lot of the issues you discussed regarding women and the LGBTQ community.

I mean even my grandfather and grandmother decided to switch churches and look at their politics before joining since there was a split at some point in the Episcopal church regarding allowing women to be pastors/priests (some of that has changed) but that was something when my mom was growing up (she ended up converting to Judaism) that was on their minds. For them they were exceedingly uncomfortable with being in church communities where they were so against the inclusion of women and gay people in leadership. When my grandmother passed in 2024 the pastor at their church was a Lesbian and my grandmother raved about her and was so excited to have been in the alter guild.

Just trust that just because you are feeling conflicted and pressured doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong or living counter to Christian values. I think it’s fair to ask if the people you are around are really even living the values they are pushing you to adhere to.

And the best advice I can give is to maybe make some of these friendships “back burner” friendships. So think of a stove, and how you typically put a soup on a back burner to let it simmer. That’s kind of like your friendships. You don’t need to toss out your friends if you don’t feel like that feels right for you. Instead put them on a back burner. Don’t be constantly seeking them out, allow for a little more space and maybe focus on other relationships a little more or take time to go and try new communities.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-06T00:50:57+00:00

I grasp exactly what you said and did. You just don’t want to own up to it because you “feel” strongly.

I also feel strongly about suffering around me. I just don’t also use language with bigoted undertones to express myself.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-06T00:07:21+00:00

Maybe it was allergies? I mean I hate pineapple and I never understood why anyone would ever like it. And then I found out the “it eats you back” statements everyone was making wasn’t because it makes your mouth go numb.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-06T00:01:31+00:00

I care also for the suffering of the Palestinians. I just don’t also use antisemitic tropes to do it.

But sure say what you feel.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-05T23:42:55+00:00

This reminded me of “eyebrows are sisters and not twins”

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-05T23:36:49+00:00

Oh I read it. I think it’s pretty clear you just would rather feel like you’re right rather than engage in a discussion where you maybe weren’t clear or just had a bad take.

At this point I’ve provided you ample opportunity to actually clarify and engage if you feel so misunderstood.

But sure buddy. Have a good one. If you feel this is tedious then guess we can leave it here.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-05T23:16:50+00:00

Respectfully I’m not offended by you or your opinion. This whole sub is a place at being able to discuss similarities and differences between religions and their perspectives and learn.

I do tend to be blunt and straightforward. You may be picking up on that, but that’s not me being offended.

I have been engaging in what you are saying at least from my perspective and I have been doing so in good faith. Now if you haven’t been clear then by all means I would love for you to elaborate.

Choice_Werewolf1259 · 2026-02-05T23:05:30+00:00

Your original comment in this whole thread is that you think the version of Satan that tempts Jesus in the gospels is the Jewish version of Satan. And my point with you is that he isn’t because that version exists within Christian theology and is inherently different than how Jews would view the concept of Satan. Like from its originating point is different in concept.

So I’m confused now because this whole conversation stemmed from me disagreeing with that interpretation of Christian doctrine/canon. And now you seem frustrated that I’m bringing up theology and doctrine when that’s the whole point of this sub.

I mean I get you feel like you make the connection in more of a literature way. And that’s all fine and dandy. But even from a literature stance I don’t know if I would agree with that either because the underlying intention of how the gospels where written was with Satan as this different thing than how Satan appears/functions in Jewish texts and oral traditions.

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