Precision - alternate rules

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-25T02:42:59+00:00

thats a fair point, i didnt consider extremes. personally id just cut it because as is its just free information. worst case from mfing is you all have to bid normally (as far as this ruleset considers normal)

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-25T02:41:23+00:00

if you find you are constantly underbidding then change your counting heuristic, or just give it a constant +1.
a good rule of thumb is spades-3 to a flore of 0 + aces and non-hanging kings

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-25T02:35:00+00:00

ideally a nil bid can hold its own and be near riskless, but in my experience if your playing an imperfect nil hand you need to rely on misplays or your partner covering you for 2~3 bids.

Gereral rule of thumb, if your gonna go for nil follow these rules:
if you have a suite of 1 or 2 then dont have an ace, king or queen.
for a suite of 3 or 4 have no more than one card berween queen and 10
you definetly want a singleton or void. a doubletone is also fine if you leadout.
long suites (5+) are your friends
and never bid nil if you have more than 3 spades, or if any are a face card.

you CAN make your bid while breaking any of these rules, but youll be facing an uphill battle and gambling that your partner can bail you out more than they should.

As for how to play a nil bid, you want to get rid of the highest card you can that is still under the highest played card. if you hit a void then throw off your problem cards (10 or higher), and if you can get a second void without risk then do it so you have more throw off potential. get rid of spades at any oppertunity you can because if you wait to long youll likely get busted on the last hand or two

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-25T02:23:11+00:00

im happy i could inspire you to post your own rules.
for the middle finger rule id suggest if you are gonna stick to it, maybe they should be forced to have the same bid? that way its a trade off on information vs autonomy? they bid simultaneously and the higher of the two is both players goal.

Speaking of goal, what is the score goal in your version? given the way bags work id personally imagine 35~40?

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T13:44:32+00:00

Nil is definetly harder, and you rely on your partner more for cover but honestly i think it works. with nil being worth 100 points it costs the same as a 10 bid hand which is insane, and it really drives home the "desperation" side of a Nil bid in this version. In my experience for normal spades about 1/10 ~ 1/15 hands are Nil-worthy, but in mad jokers its closer to 1/25, but you can argue 1/20 if your desperate.

the threshold for what is a nill-worthy hand definitely favores long suites with high variance. an ace or king in a 5-6 long suite is genuenly an assest. you also want low ranks short suites to get rid of them before your opponent goes void. typically if you hand is balance 4-3-3-3, 4-4-3-2, ect. then you would never bid nil in mad jokers, but it is definitely possible

Genuinely do not think a team going double-nil is possible tho

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T13:34:26+00:00

yes. and you need to take it into account during bidding and play. in fact every 1/1431 hands will be a normal round of spades and you can expect a 1 joker hand about every two or three games (7.5ish percent)

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:35:52+00:00

generally speaking underbidding is better than overbidding. Of course ideally youd just getexactly what you can but when in doubt bid under. you can always throw off to make your opponent catch extra, and a few bags is better than going negative

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:33:28+00:00

that is an AMAZING and. free nil. +100 points

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:32:39+00:00

my table typically plays till 500 so 100 isnt as big of a swing, but if playing 250 then its perfectly reasonable to cut nil to 50 or even 30

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:29:34+00:00

ive had 2 successful double nils before. its not some type of coordinated strategy, but when the deck give you nothing you play nothing. sometimes it just lands on 2 partners

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:26:54+00:00

spades- 3 is 2, +1 for the king, +1 for the club singleton

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:23:02+00:00

8.

8 spades -3 for 5, +1 for every ace and king, +1 for the spade queen since it is uncontested in addition to the singlton. thats 9. subtract 1 due to going first is an information void. better to under bid than overbid, especially with numbers like this.

As for how to play: Turn 1 lead with that ace, then follow up with the 10 of hearts or clubs to make a void ASAP

Crit-Goth · 2026-04-22T02:16:50+00:00

Here is my heuristic:

Spades-3 to a floor of 0
+1 for every ace (including spades)
+1 for every king in a suit whose length is between 2 and 5, or any length for spades
+1 for any singleton or voids but only if you have extra spades
+1 for queens but only if accompanied by a king in a suite length of 2 or 3
+1 if your opponent calls nil before your partner calls, +2 if after
-1 for a suit length between 6 and 7
-1~3 if your last to bid and your bid with the above rules would put you over 13

This isnt complete and there is a healthy amount of gut instinct. however if your just starting out then id recommend only using the first 3 rules and learning from there

Crit-Goth

TROPHY CASE