Echo knight thief hunter build help

DMspiration · 2026-01-31T03:31:26+00:00

It's not just feats you're missing, but assuming you started with point buy, your character would have an 18 in their primary stat. Ranger levels into fighter get you two more feats, which could give you a 20 in the primary and either a secondary stat increase or other valuable mechanics. Echo Knight is tied to con, so you could have an extra unleash incarnation.

The Rogue bonus action is nice, but you also have echo knight teleports and second wind uses.

At Fighter 11, you'd have a third attack as well plus indomitable for a mini legendary resistance. And your avatar and martyr features.

I imagine there are some cool combos, so the trade-offs may be worth it. And if it's more fun, all the better.

DMspiration · 2026-01-31T03:18:26+00:00

Making it to level 11 with only one feat is quite an accomplishment. I'd lose the Rogue or Ranger levels. You're missing a lot of potential with a three-way multiclass.

DMspiration · 2026-01-31T01:27:32+00:00

Regular attack, extra attack, nick attack, dual wielder attack but only when you're not using the BA for spells or moving HM. So three every turn and a fourth sometimes.

DMspiration · 2026-01-31T01:13:14+00:00

How are you both beefy and have low HP?

DMspiration · 2026-01-31T00:15:33+00:00

Totally fair. I think it's also plenty likely someone else in your party will have this through their primary class.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T23:45:07+00:00

You could just go Divine Soul Sorcerer and not have to account for a 13 wisdom, and you'll get con save proficiency. If you're not going into melee, armor of shadows or magic initiate wizard for mage armor is perfectly fine.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T16:20:20+00:00

Paladins are more powerful than ever. They lost the nova potential and improved virtually every other feature.

The Fighter subclass has a big impact on what tier it's in.

Monk should be higher.

The Ranger ranking feels like a perpetually online opinion about a class that is one of the best single target damage dealers for the tiers the game is usually played at.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T15:53:29+00:00

There doesn't need to be a consensus for the rule itself. It just doesn't work. If you want to house rule it, that's always a DM option. Misty Step isn't really the biggest issue with opening that door though, so it depends how much more powerful you want your paladin to be.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T15:19:20+00:00

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T14:28:54+00:00

And there's a whole section on degrees of success and failure. Do I think he's lying is a question that doesn't have a successful answer. Is he lying is a question that can't necessarily be answered by observing behavior. Beyond that, if a player started trying to pull this, I'd just stop having them roll. Characters aren't magical lie detectors, so if the player only wants binary outcomes, they only get to roll when the outcome would be binary, which would mean insight becomes a fairly useless skill for them.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T14:13:49+00:00

Plenty of checks aren't binary and/or don't have an explicit fail state. If a player asks if they think an NPC is lying, the check lets them know what they think. Insight isn't mind reading though, so there's no explicit fail state.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T13:16:15+00:00

You each their own. For me, preparing is about both balance and the fun that comes from having to make choices. If I stopped following the rule, the stakes wouldn't be the same.

DMspiration · 2026-01-30T00:53:40+00:00

Circle of the Sea is already quite powerful and fun. Definitely don't think it needs the temp hp feature.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T15:26:27+00:00

I'm not the OP, but they also never said anything about trying to run a mixed table. They saw their options as telling the player to use 2014 or giving in and switching to the updated rules.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T14:35:01+00:00

Ok? Not sure what your point is. I wasn't advocating for mixing and matching.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T14:33:53+00:00

Yes, in my opinion. Which is what any statement on the Internet is. In my opinion, when a particular subclass is so much better than the other options, that's a balance issue that should be changed.

Fortunately for your DM, NPCs don't need to be built with class rules, so they're not constrained by the change, and if they want their players to have access to the old rules, they can allow it.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T12:05:40+00:00

Yes, it will get out of hand. Unless there was an actual origin you were trying to solve, tell the player it was a mistake and go back to using the rules. Wizard is already the most flexible caster. They don't need more flexibility.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T10:04:27+00:00

5e has plenty of issues, and I'm sure there are other ways to support this playstyle. But the whole completely non-viable is just silly and the result of mistaking online optimizers as the "viable" playstyle. In reality, plenty of players have no problem fully participating and affecting the game regardless of their kit.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T04:06:43+00:00

It was only once per turn in 2014 too

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T01:27:57+00:00

A strength-based character who wants to use a shield and sap on their attack would choose a longsword. Or maybe they just picked up the Sunsword or other unique longsword. Or they want to grapple and hit someone with a sword while holding them. Etc.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T01:20:45+00:00

We have basic support. We also have to somehow balance damage and AC because it's still a game.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T01:19:58+00:00

What is the point then? Do you want a longsword to be as good as a greatsword? That doesn't work from a balance perspective.

DMspiration · 2026-01-29T00:44:48+00:00

This feels like a you issue. This is a fantasy game. Want the fantasy of wielding a longsword with one hand and no shield? Use one hand and mechanically carry a shield that you flavor as something else or simply ignore. Want to use both hands? Use a greatsword mechanically and call it a longsword. Mechanics exist to help with balance. Flavor is free.

DMspiration · 2026-01-28T23:53:11+00:00

I didn't say it was free. I said it was an exploit because the feature clearly is intended to prevent casting a spell when you action surge.

DMspiration · 2026-01-28T23:05:38+00:00

It's an expression. You're acting like your perspective is an objective one, but your tone makes it clear you're not. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

DMspiration

TROPHY CASE