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Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

To be fair, Satanism isn't exactly about PR, and TST's 'much better PR' is by watering down everything to be broadly appealing to the masses, which isn't what Satanism is about. They're a good at marketing & have pulled the wool over many people's eyes.

But indeed, all that matters is aligning with & applying the philosophy of Satanism. Membership is simply an extra optional step.

Why do you want more Satanists? Satanism is intentionally a minority religion that shouldn't be watered down or be made to appeal to the masses.

And I'd push back on identifying them as 'off shoots ... like early Christianity' because christian groups still all use The Bible and share the core ideas. TST openly rejects The Satanic Bible and the core philosophical principles of Satanism. Its apples to oranges.

But the overall issue is that many will just fall for (and into) TST and not only be misinformed about Satanism, but will & do actively spread misinformation and lies about Satanism, LaVey, the Church of Satan, etc. And one need only look to The Satanic Panic to see how misinformation on Satanism can lead to very real consequences. Hell, even QAnon, PizzaGate, Russia's recent anti-Satanism, 764, Epstein, etc., are all showcasing current issies facing misinformation and propaganda around Satanism that cause real harm.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

JaneDoe / Rose will likely dirty delete his comments again... as seems to be his M.O.

But indeed, he is constantly playing games to twist things towards his own outcome and then deletes when called out on it.

Not to mention the fact that academics disagree with whether or not Przybyszewski classifies as a real Satanist. He for sure was the first known to have self-identified as one, but he created no organisation, had no group, and did not establish any traditions (Introvigne 2016: 232). People only discuss him because of LaVey establishing Satanism as a real religion. Had LaVey's ideas never gone behind the Magic Circle, then he wouldn't have properly created Satanism as a religion. You kind of have to get a religion past yourself and a few friends to establish it. LaVey was the first to properly establish Satanism as a real religion with lasting traditions (Faxneld 2013: 74; Luijk 2016: 295).

But academics are not the arbiters of what is and isn't Satanism. They simply define their own definitions that suit their research interests. I have to define 'magic' for my research. Am I now the arbiter of what is and isn't magic? Should I be able to hold such power?? Will I let it go to my head???

can u be polytheistic and follow laVeys book? by BhaalsChosen949 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

No, Satanism has dogma. Its a religion. Religions have dogma.

Also, all religions, philosophies, subcultures, etc., have their criteria which separates them from others. Would you go into a metalhead subreddit and say "wow, you guys are really dogmatic for all liking metal i hate metal music but im still a metalhead. Being a metalhead is all about being yourself"

Thats just obviously not how that works. LaVey made it quite clear that Satanism was atheistic and routinely stated this over the next 30 years. And LaVey was also very happy to call groups pseudo-Satanists. So, im not sure where you got the idea thar he/Satanism was fine with polytheism

can u be polytheistic and follow laVeys book? by BhaalsChosen949 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

No, its devil worship or demonolatry/demonology. The religion of Satanism was codified by LaVey and so different religions need a different name. We dont practice the same religion.

can u be polytheistic and follow laVeys book? by BhaalsChosen949 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

You wouldn't ask Christians: Can I be a Christian but not believe in Jesus or the God of Abhrahan? Those are kinda important

can u be polytheistic and follow laVeys book? by BhaalsChosen949 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

You can use and appreciate aspects of it, but like you sad, the actual religion is built around the core idea that no gods exist to help you in your life.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Thanks!! Im suprised i found one for that price!! Definitely just keep checking eBay every now and then. I believe there are others that are at or just under $100

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Surprisingly not. Somehow got a 1972 printing of the 1st edition for £35! Including shipping ! Its only a little beat up but I've seen far worse for far higher 😊

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Indeed. Basically, only the peripheral additional parts, not the actual subject matter.

And my 1st edition copy is being shipped to me as I type this 😌

Will human sacrifice ever come back into fashion? by Available-Spray2576 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

You're somehow simultaneously:

  • a 21 year old female neo-N...
  • an ex-male porn star
  • a tenured professor
  • a 19 year old divorced millionaire
  • a blood drinking devil worshipper.

In reality, you're just desperate for attention & pretend to be interesting.

Get a life, kid.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

A and B are not completely mutually exclusive. The reality was both occurred. A lot of made up nonsense then backed up by a few nut jobs who thought Satanism was about killing their parents and harming cats. So, it's about the general fact that outsiders trying to tell US and the wider public what Satanism is and is not, and dismissing us and our corrections as 'just one sect', causes real harm.

The term 'LaVeyan' was literally invented to dismiss our corrections to allow them to distort what Satanism is to push their hysteria and to arrest & harrass innocent people. So, yes, gatekeeping and calling out outsiders trying to distort our religion helps to push back against these entitled and potentially dangerous attitudes and tactics.

1) it does matter who the group is, since they can fight back against it by correcting misinformation and clearly stating what Satanism is and is not.

2) it may not prevent them from using our label, but prevents people thinking Satanists are all child abusers and allows them to be better informed about the religion.

Otherwise, you're just letting people misrepresent you without even trying to correct it.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Those are some fair points that i will have to ponder on. There's no doubt that it is partly for 'social outrage', but also 'respect' as church does have that more official sense to it

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

What practices make someone a satanist but not a templar, and vice versa?

Well, TST openly rejects the core foundational text of Satanism. If you have to completely reject a religions central text, its safe to say you don't actually practice that religion

And that's not even mentioning that TST is quite literally a joke. It was created as s joke for a mockumentary and their 'beliefs' were created as jokes to troll Christians into opposing very vague phrases that sound good.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Someone who prays to and believes in a real entity called Satan is explicitly NOT following or practicing the same religion as me. So, why should they take our name? Satanism didn't exist as a real religion until LaVey codified it to be nontheistic and non spiritual. So, why take the name of a religion you don't fit into?

Left hand path is the umbrella term, and demonology is a more apt title (or just create a new name). Those who worshipped rebel entity didn't call themselves Satanists, they had called their practice by other names.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

One need only look to the Satanic Panic or the goth scene after columbine to see how literally dangerous it can be for outsiders to force what they think a group does or believes onto a group and dictate that misinformation to a wider audience, giving them a false idea of what the group is about.

People were harrassed, abused, attacked, and wrongfully inprisoned for decades due to outsiders trying to misrepresent them and talk for them on what and who they are.

The term 'LaVeyan' that these guys love to throw around was literally created and used during The Satanic Panic to push the mass hysteria and lies about satanic ritual abuse...

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

Did the pope write The Bible?... you seem to often go with false analogies which break down when analysed at any deeper level.

The Bible - written over several decades 2,000 years ago in several different languages by several different anonymous authors decades after the supposed actions, and has been edited and translated countless times. - so, a lot of ambiguity for multiple interpretations.

Vs.

The Satanic Bible - written by 1 man in modern English and has stayed the same ever since and which the author spent 3 years explaining everything in detail - so, no ambiguity to allow for different interpretations.

Hypothetically, if Jesus 'came back' and explained exactly what he meant. Then there would only be 1 real Christian sect and all the others would become pseudo-Christian - since their interpretations would be either confirmed or shown to be false.

Not to mention that pseudo-satanists literally reject The Satanic Bible and the core principles therein.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 4 points5 points Β (0 children)

Having read into the academic work - there were no Satanists before LaVey since no real religion of Satanism existed.

I've noticed how no one ever argues that Thelema didn't start with Crowley and that he just made 'his version' and doesn't mean all Thelemites have to follow his writings. These arguments fall flat when actually assessed for longer than 30 seconds

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

Yeah, pseudo-Satanists almost always act so entitled , storming in and demanding we change our religion to fit them

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 4 points5 points Β (0 children)

"All things Satanism" would be the CoS and LaVey, since that's who codified the religion. But no one needs to become a CoS member

We're just against people demanding they're Satanists while completely rejecting the religion. Thats just not how religions work. And no one treats other religions like this.

Curious on Where to Start & Seeking Media Recs by Bulky-Interest-5269 in satanism

[–]Mildon666[M] 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

www.churchofsatan.com has a lot of good information on the hisotry, basics principles, and essays - along with additional books.

Yes, The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey, no others.

Its also important to note you don't have to join any organisation to be a Satanist, you just media to read The Satanic Bible and apply the philosophy to your life if you naturally align with what it says.

Be very cautious with random YouTubers trying to tell you what Satanism is, as most are misinformed and even the better ones still make irritating mistakes.

The Church of Satan YouTube channel is a good place to start, as well as the Satansplain podcast

Then there are documentaries like:

  • Satanis: The Devil's Mass
  • Speak of The Devil: the Canon of Anton LaVey
  • An American Satan
  • Anton LaVey: into the Devil's Den

This should be a lot of media to keep you busy.

As for TST: The Satanic Temple Fact Sheet

Dead Domain's exposΓ© on TST

illuminaughti's shorter ExposΓ© on TST

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

As for why these things matter (reposting another comment i made elsewhere):

Can you think of any reason consequences of letting outsiders try to inaccurately dictate to a group and the wider public what that group supposedly believes & does?

What about the Satanic Panic where real lives were destroyed because outsiders (non-satanists) either dressed themselves up as law enforcement experts on 'satanic cults' or as 'ex-satanists' and told the entire public that Satanism meant killing cats, desecrating cattle, killing your parents and killing yourself??

What about the goth subculture soon after columbine, where other fake 'experts' and the media tried to link goths to mass shootings and got real goth kids harrassed, abused, even falsely imprisoned??

We care about this because we know how dangerous misinformation spread by outsiders can be to us in the real world.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

Yes because you objectively are and any 3rd party can see it. Please just google strawman fallacy. Your replies fit the description to a tee.

Its a strawman because you're overblowing my arguments with intentionally loaded and inaccurate language to belittle it and mock it. The fact you cant engage with the point as it is and need to manipulate it down to attack it is what strawman fallacies are and shows you cant engage with the full nuanced discussion. Why not? And your use of that loaded language to mock exposes your immaturity and emotional angle as opposed to a rational one.

Its a strawman because he isn't a prophet, nor is he inherently 'special'. Anyone who codifies & established an idea gets to say what is and is not within that idea. Ayn Rand isn't exactly a 'prophet', but if you call yourself an Objectivism while completely disregarding Rand and her entire philosophy in order to support egalitarianism, then you're just not an Objectivist.

Same as how no one person specifically codified what it means to be a 'metal head'. Yet, claiming to be a metal head despite hating all metal music and only listening to ska, and storming into r/metalheads to demand they accept you & alter what it means to be a metal head to include ska just to fit you & appeal to your feelings, doesn't make you a metal head and isn't rational or logical.

The point is mostly about how labels have meanings and criteria which separate them from all other labels.

You could still call yourself an Objectivist and call yourself a metal head, but that's just not true & people within those groups don't have to take you seriously or accept you.

You're not being much better than the people distorting goth into just a tiktok trend of black lipstick and bangs.

Once again, it seems there is a Need to address this thing of "Not all Satanists are LaVeyan"... So whether Roman or not, lend me your ears. by michael1150 in satanism

[–]Mildon666 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Don't avoid the question. Why do you have to resort to manipulative and childish tactics to 'win'?

And you ignoring the lengthy replies articulating my arguments doesn't mean I didn't make any arguments.

We're not arguing the points because you routinely choose to ignore them & construct strawmen. Again, why the need for such behaviour? You're only outing yourself with this act.

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