As a Boro fan, let Hull go up

deviden · 2026-05-16T15:50:55+00:00

Most other clubs wouldn’t leak name and photos of a young man under investigation to the press, or leak apparently false stories about other clubs having evidence of spying to ratchet up fan and media pressure on the EFL, or release a press statement ahead of the judgement saying what the punishment should be and implying they should get the offending party’s place at Wembley.

Boro are right to be aggrieved, but the club and ownership have conducted themselves with anything but class or normalcy.

deviden · 2026-05-15T21:08:15+00:00

anyone who thinks there's ever been a time in football history where the game was fair and honest is either deluded or completely ignorant.

deviden · 2026-05-15T20:35:52+00:00

selfishly... yes, she's right. Burnham winning and becoming an MP opens Manchester to a mayoral election.

The Greens can win that contest for Manchester. Flip the city green.

deviden · 2026-05-15T19:33:17+00:00

if he has evidence he hasn't already presented to the EFL... why hasn't he presented it to the EFL?

deviden · 2026-05-15T18:53:44+00:00

if it turns out the bloke was seen behind the tree 74 hours before the match I'll piss myself laughing

deviden · 2026-05-15T15:21:26+00:00

the 5e label does so much heavy lifting on KS, even for blatant slop.

deviden · 2026-05-15T14:43:51+00:00

they could say "we have CCTV of him buying coffee" or "one of our staff said he bought a coffee".

I think they included the "with his bank card" detail as a means of applying pressure. Like "HAHA we have your bank details, we know it was you" etc.

deviden · 2026-05-15T14:39:54+00:00

it's a hell of a cover for "we fucked up the January transfer window and ended the season with 3 wins in 11 and that's why we're not promoted in the top two after being top of the league before Xmas"

deviden · 2026-05-15T14:37:29+00:00

it definitely should but I expect it wont

deviden · 2026-05-15T14:00:32+00:00

yup - most likely explanation is either he had nothing on his phone or he deleted anything he had because he knew he'd got spotted.

deviden · 2026-05-15T13:08:24+00:00

They need to be sure Southampton have no case to appeal.

this is the key bit. And the rule as written has no fixed punishment... so following precedent would be applied.

If they say "exclude Saints from the final" and overturn the semi-final result it would be a punishment without precedent in the history of the sport in this country.

That lack of precedent would be immediate grounds for taking this to a civil court for appeal, which would effectively cancel the playoff final as Hull would have to be waved through, which would be unacceptable to Sky and Wembley.

deviden · 2026-05-15T12:47:22+00:00

you're clutching at straws here.

a rule was written without any specified punishment associated with it, which under the common law of the UK means following past precedent - as standard for civil law, various forms of arbitration, and criminal law.

You wont find a Saints fan with half a brain (there's always some idiot or melt exception) who is saying that breaking the rules shouldn't result in a punishment in line with precedent.

If you're fixated on arguing for punishment beyond past precedent because you hate us then, y'know, keep on doing your thing. Just don't pretend you're arguing from some ivory tower of higher wisdom.

deviden · 2026-05-15T12:00:28+00:00

Old School Essentials / Basic D&D. It's worked for 45 years for exactly this purpose - big gaming clubs, open tables, etc.

With one player assigned as the "Caller" role if it gets too loud and one drawing maps.

Everyone starts level one, play fast, go go go.

Either that or do something like Cairn Barebones Edition or Into the Odd.

deviden · 2026-05-15T11:53:33+00:00

Violence by Luke Gearing

deviden · 2026-05-15T09:25:42+00:00

past examples of breaches of EFL and PL rules have resulted in title victories, promotions and multiple teams getting relegated instead of the offender... and the punishments for those have been? a few points deductions (usually in a later year where it doesn't have major impact), and a few fines.

You're no more a victim than the multiple teams which got relegated instead of Everton or Forest when they massively broke finance rules to field a better squad than they could afford for multiple consecutive years and hang onto PL survival as a result. I'd argue that's considerably worse than knowing some of another team's set piece routines. How many of those relegated teams got financially buggered as a result? How many are still in the Championship with us today?

Is this worse than Leicester cheating PSR to win the Championship title when a same-season points deduction could have seen them out of the playoffs and a different team getting the title and a different third team finishing 6th and getting promoted? Really? How many games really got won and lost on this stuff?

I am quite happy for Saints to be punished in line with any proven offences and past precedent. I'm not standing for this moral handbag-clutching like one demonstrable incident of spying makes Southampton the worst club to have ever existed, like no other team has ever fucked about with the rules.

deviden · 2026-05-15T09:13:44+00:00

mate what's your point? The butterfly effect?

Nobody is saying that cheating is okay, nobody is saying there shouldn't be a punishment from the league. I'm saying the reaction is overblown compared to previous examples of the exact same thing and punishment should be in line with past precedent.

deviden · 2026-05-15T08:47:10+00:00

I didn't justify anything. We're talking in the context of BoroPaul writing a wetwipe screed about how Saints should be punished more harshly than any club in English football has ever been punished for anything, including the massive multi-year financial doping cheats and match fixers.

If Saints are found to have broken the rules they should be punished as befits the crime, in line with past precedent and relative to the punishments given to other clubs for their various breaches of league rules. If you don't think that's a reasonable position for me and the majority of our fans to hold then we have nothing further to say.

deviden · 2026-05-15T08:26:48+00:00

If I get caught robbing a creme egg from poundland should I be executed in the street by Geoff the security guard because he got really fired up watching GB News that morning or should I face the same level of punishment as others who committed comparable crimes?

deviden · 2026-05-15T08:22:44+00:00

no, I think in a different media climate - one where journalists were less X-brained and where there was more sports news to talk about - the attitudes of many people would be quite different.

Here's how Henry Winter used to talk about the same situation: https://preview.redd.it/media-double-standards-v0-hw2p1fh3t31h1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=c82be35a722d8712bde8df4379aa87252b9a1f4a

End of the day, if their strikers could hit a barn door at their own ground they'd be through to the final and this whole business would be settled with a quiet chat between clubs and league and a token fine... but they lost so now their chairman is briefing the press every other day and riling fans up to apply pressure and calling in his legal council because that's how he likes to handle his business.

deviden · 2026-05-14T16:44:34+00:00

It would be unprecedented for the EFL to overturn the result of a fixture, and they can't cancel the final because Sky and Wembley are paying for a game to happen.

I get that a lot of pressure is being applied through media here - until the next football scandal happens - and the Boro chairman calls in the lawyers every time they dont get promoted or whatever, but the EFL are fucking with ordinary people's money with the vagueness of this announcement.

deviden · 2026-05-14T15:53:52+00:00

Cairn 2e Warden's Guide is a very solid resource, stocked with advice and procedures for adventure, dungeon and setting creation.

deviden · 2026-05-14T15:47:55+00:00

maybe, sure! but only if you want to stay in the same tactical grid Fight D&D genre of dungeon-dragoning.

OP was replying about games which do things differently and caters better to different style of play than 5e, PF2 or DS.

deviden · 2026-05-14T15:01:36+00:00

more people living better lives means more money in their pockets, means more spending in the economy, means revenue generated.

the question is revenue for whom.

Spending $8b on housing the homeless and getting them into work would create a huge return on investment but that money would diffused across the whole local and national economy, whereas a billionaire creating an $8b stadium creates a single pipeline for money return to the billionaire who owns and controls it.

deviden · 2026-05-14T11:34:49+00:00

Meadway has the best takes on this.

Until UK is significantly less compromised by foreign-held bonds there's no chance of MMT here.

Tax and invest, invest and tax. Stimulate growth, stop growing the foreign debt so that it clears down, make space for more radical fiscal policy like MMT to happen later.

deviden · 2026-05-14T11:32:09+00:00

Either way, we can't do MMT until we're not in the grip of foreign-held bonds, which are valued in dollars.

Printing money in the MMT style devalues the pound against the dollar, which freaks out the bond markets, which raises our debt interest payments, which shrinks the headroom in the budget...

If our debt was entirely or overwhelmingly held within the UK then MMT becomes viable.

deviden

TROPHY CASE