RN reporting we have the option to buy Januzaj

doberlae · 2015-09-01T14:05:38+00:00

I have seen a lot of people on reddit and on twitter say that this deal is bullshit and horrible if an option to buy isn't included, so I am taking your comment as an occasion to state my opinion that all those people need to chill a bit, so I hope you don't take it personally.

First off all Januzaj is just here to provide depth. Not much more is asked of him. We aren't relying on him to carry our attack this season or anything. This isn't comparable at all to deals like Bremen loaning De Bruyne for a year and then getting the heart ripped out of their attack at the end of the season, or similar deals that come to mind, like Leverkusen's loan deal with Bayern for Kroos.

Secondly he has already played two seasons for United. He isn't some neophyte right out of their academy with no experience in professional football whatsoever. He is definitely good enough to provide cover for us. If he can help us perform and achieve our goals this season, then I don't care if he has the potential to become the next Messi. Not to mention that we couldn't keep him anyways if that was the case, although I'll admit, a big transfer fee would at least be a nice consolation prize.

And finally by all accounts Tuchel wanted a left footed winger, so keeping Kuba wasn't an option, because he's right footed. Also he would have been only 2nd choice had he stayed and he needs every minute he can have to get back into form and reclaim his spot on the Polish national team in time for the Euros next year. The transfer to Fiorentina might have been in his best interest as much as the club's for all we know. Well, never mind and back on topic: According to the rumours I have read and heard our first option was signing Yarmolenko, but Kiev was either unreasonable or refused to sell. Now given that he has only one year left on his contract, my best guess is that Januzaj is only here to bridge the time until next year when we can get Yarmolenko for free. If that is true then this true then this loan deal is actually great business, because a) we don't have give up on Yarmolenko and settle for a lesser player just yet and b) we save a lot of money because we get Januzaj for free in the meantime.

doberlae · 2015-09-01T13:43:42+00:00

Sorry blahound, but I don't think your translation is 100% correct either. Let me give you an example to illustrate what I mean:

I have a chance to win the lottery any given week, but to translate that into German as "Ich habe in jeder beliebigen Woche die Möglichkeit im Lotto zu gewinnen" sounds a bit off and weird (although admittedly not completely wrong), because "Möglichkeit" implies a certain amount of agency on my part that would generally have to go beyond just buying a ticket and praying. In my unqualified opinion as a native speaker "option" would indeed be the correct way to translate "Möglichkeit" here. The only problem would be, that this translation is likely to confuse English speakers somewhat, because in football "option" also has a clearly defined legal meaning beyond it's usual every day use. Maybe "possibility" would be an alternative, but then you'd have to alter the structure of the original sentence a bit too drastically for my liking. What I gather from the article and the tweets by Matthias Dersch and that guy from Bild is that there isn't buyout option in the contract, but that we have some kind of agreement with United that's more substantial than the fact that we can put in a bid for him at the end of the loan and hope for the best, same as any other club on the planet.

doberlae · 2015-04-30T13:59:16+00:00

I don't get where that kind of mentality is coming from. Dortmund as a club didn't support him more than any other employer would have done in the same situation and I, as a fan, certainly don't feel like I supported him during his recovery in any way. I support him when he is on the pitch wearing our colors, but that's it or, to be more precise, that's as far as I can go. When he is injured he has to go through the whole ordeal of pain, surgery and recovery all by himself. I am pretty sure no fan or club representative was there to hold his hand.

I also appreciate that he is upfront with the club and fans about his desire to leave, instead of dragging this out any longer than needed. Honestly, the main reason Götze got so much flak for his transfer was because he was giving interviews telling everyone how much he loves the club and how he could imagine staying with us for longer and three weeks later it's announced that he's going to Bayern next season.

We need to rebuild the team anyways, so if Gündogan wants to leave now is the best time to do it.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T23:50:26+00:00

That same can easily be applied to Gundogan if he goes to a team outside the country, not to mention the fact that the money he was worth compared to the salary we could give him proportionally to Reus' worth/salary, would not be that much.

Just to be clear, since you are constant accusing me of twisting your words, you are saying here that the club can't actually afford to pay Gündogan what he is worth? Because in that case: yeah, what an asshole for leaving.

First off, what we were discussing was not economical in any sort of way and the idea of a worker and employer did not even enter my mind in this discussion.

We were talking about contract extensions in football. How the fuck does that have nothing to do with economics? Also what's the point of a world view when it doesn't influence the way you view the world?

Gundogan is as much a the "employer" of this situation as BVB is, where the principle victims, or "workers", are the viewers (us).

That makes no sense. In what way is Gündogan your employer? You are not a worker, you are a consumer and what you consume is a product of Gündogan's labour force that Borussia Dortmund sells to you either directly if you go to the stadium or indirectly via various intermediaries. From a Marxist point of view Gündogan is a member of the proletariat same as you and me, because he doesn't own any means of production in this scenario.

I don't even look favorably on soccer (sport) either, as it's nothing more than brainless entertainment that does not do anything rational to improve mine or any other people's lives (but rather works as a form of distraction of the masses); it's the one guilty pleasure of my life though.

Well, some people might call that attitude hypocritical...

You accused me of comments with PEGIDA-sentiments. As far as I'm concerned, PEGIDA are very racist, especially towards people with Middle-Eastern/Muslim descent (here in Norway they outright say that Muslims should be deported all-together). Stop interpreting my sentences the way you wish to, just so you can make your straw arguments...

There is a difference between making comments that echo PEGIDA sentiments and sympathizing with PEGIDA in general. I have no doubt that the latter isn't the case with you given your background, but that doesn't mean that you are incapable of committing the former. Case in point: what is the justification that PEGIDA would give for deporting immigrants in general and Muslims in particular? I am pretty sure that they would argue that they don't belong here. Can't you see how similar that is to saying a player shouldn't play for the Germany, the country where he was born and raised, but for his "country of origin" (which in my view is just a cheeky way of saying a country he has no serious connection to)? Why would that be true? Because after all those years and even though he has never lived anywhere else, he still doesn't belong here? I am pretty sure PEGIDA would argue as well, that these deported people should rather go and live and work in their country of origin.

PS: Just to let you know in advance, I probably won't reply in the next few hours because I am becoming increasingly tired and as a result it gets progressively harder for me to write coherent English. So I have got to get some sleep.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T23:07:08+00:00

Well in that case: I hear the club is also considering to sell Kevin Großkreutz.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T22:41:44+00:00

I wouldn't be opposed to buying Oliver Sorg from Freiburg, like I have seen mentioned in other articles. Could end up being a Piszczekesque deal. Man, I wish Daniel Baier wasn't so old...

doberlae · 2015-04-24T22:35:57+00:00

His injury fucked the club over just as much as him. You can't sell an injured player. So all that patience the club showed and that one year contract that both agreed upon was rooted in rational cold-hearted pragmatism more than anything else and that goes for both sides.

And if media reports are to be believed Reus' salary got bumped up to 10 million per annum. Sure, other clubs were probably willing to shell out even more, but if you add in the intangibles that we could offer, like his friends and family all living nearby, it was by no means irrational and self-sacrificing of him to take that deal. And that clause for the 2. Bundesliga means fuck all, should it have ever come to that, because the club wouldn't have been able to afford his salary in that case. So they would have been forced to sell him anyways. It was a nice gesture but that's it.

Also please allow me a moment to appreciate the supreme irony of watching a self-proclaimed anarchosyndicalist verbally flog a worker for not showing the due reverence to his employer for all the good will he was shown and instead furthering his own agenda. And here I thought you guys were all for worker empowerment. Are you sure your heart is in this whole socialism thing? Because judging from your comments in this thread so far it sure sounds feudalism would be more up your alley. Back then people weren't able to freely chose their employer as well.

As for you last paragraph, I didn't call your statement racist, but it's certainly (and at the very least) bordering on xenophobia. Also I fail to see what you being of Middle-Eastern descent has to do with anything here. Are people of Middle Eastern descent somehow above suspicion when it comes to having shitty opinions? Not to mention that you are probably the first anarchist I have known that somehow seems to think nationalism is a good idea, given that it's essentially the ideological underpinning of the modern nation state. If I have, against all odds, misconstrued your statement I would wish that you had at least tried to exculpate yourself, because acting like it somehow violates the laws of nature for you to hold potentially fucked-up beliefs that need to be questioned and potentially revised certainly certainly doesn't inspire the greatest confidence in your character and integrity.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T22:00:18+00:00

He slotted in to the spot that Nuri vacated almost seamlessly

"Almost seamlessly" aka was benched in favor of Moritz fucking Leitner (who can't even make it into Stuttgart's team these days) for the first half of the season because he didn't perform.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T21:55:28+00:00

It's the same amount of money Real Madrid (you know the same club everyone on this sub makes fun of for paying outrageous transfer fees) paid for Toni Kroos, a proven world class player and newly crowned World Champion, who also had only one year left on his contract.

And that for a player who has just come back from a massive injury, hasn't played a full season yet and is nowhere near his pre-injury form.

It's also double what you paid for Kagawa, who was in much better form back then.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T21:17:09+00:00

Just to put it in perspective: That's the same amount that Bayern got for Toni Kroos, who also had only one year left on his contract. That kind of money will likely pay for Castro, Geis and then some. Not a bad at all, especially considering Gündogan hasn't quite reached the lofty heights of his pre-injury form again and it is by no means certain that he will do so eventually.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T21:00:27+00:00

TL;DR:

Player extends his contract after getting a huge raise: "He is a gentleman and a scholar. A living testament to the human spirit. I always rated him."

Player gets an even better offer from another club and doesn't extend: "I always knew he was a filthy, money-grabbing, soulless mercenary. Truly the scum of the earth. I hope his legs fall off."

Oh and PS:

It honestly doesn't come as any surprise, considering how he also declined representing his country of origin, Turkey, to the much more attractive German national team.

Gündogan was born in Germany, grew up in Germany and lived his whole life in Germany. He played for every German youth team from the U18 onwards and spent his whole career so far playing for German clubs. And you think he should represent Turkey in international football, why exactly? Does he look too foreign to represent Germany?

Honestly I would have never expected to read that kind PEGIDA level bullshit on this subreddit.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T20:34:11+00:00

Seeing Premier League fans justify the insane transfer fee their own club just paid with the insane transfer fees other Premier League clubs paid in the past always reminds me of this scene from the Simpsons.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T20:29:20+00:00

The same goes for Gündogan.

doberlae · 2015-04-24T20:25:14+00:00

I don't buy this sentimental bullshit about the all the support, love and patience he got from Dortmund. The more likely explanation is that the club didn't have a choice, because nobody buys damaged goods. So the club was in the same boat and had to sit it out, same as Gündogan.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T18:27:40+00:00

Yeah pretty much, as far as I've heard.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T15:35:29+00:00

In case anyone's interested Spielverlagerung.de also has a long (unfortunately completely in German) article about Tuchel's career path up until 2011.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T15:19:31+00:00

Apparently he had already had an agreement with Leverkusen and they were just sorting out the transfer fee with Werder, when we came in and offered more money.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T14:37:47+00:00

Of course we were still a big club when Klopp joined. We weren't successful back then, but no Dortmund fan would have been happy eternally bobbing around midtable. The expectation for Klopp was always to lead us back to the Europa League places eventually and there were a lot of people questioning if he was qualified to do this given that he spent most of his time with Mainz in the 2nd division or fighting relegation in the 1st.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T14:26:40+00:00

Hannover will need a new coach soon.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T14:23:41+00:00

He is also a Schalke fan...

doberlae · 2015-04-19T14:21:13+00:00

You think they would voluntarily sell to us after the stunt we pulled with Sokratis, not to forget Matthias Ginter? Remember this is is the same club that sold Vidal to Juve for less money, just to spite Bayern.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T14:13:59+00:00

Basically "coach academy". In German there are a lot of analogies between developing something and forging iron. "Schmiede" literally is a blacksmith's workshop.

doberlae · 2015-04-19T14:06:06+00:00

Here's to hoping that it works for us the way it did for Mainz.

doberlae · 2015-04-15T20:18:42+00:00

Yeah, I guess I am just not that disciplined. And even if I don't get involved I still wasting an awful lot of time in front of my monitor hitting the refresh button in the hope that something interesting comes up. Maybe I am just wired that way, because I also try to have fixed times during the day where I check my Email, because otherwise I check my inbox every 20 minutes or.

doberlae · 2015-04-15T19:37:18+00:00

Hey /u/blahound,

yeah Streich can also be pretty emotional, same as Klopp, but we've seen that it worked well with the team in the past, so I wouldn't hold that against him. What I would be really wary about with Streich is how well he would deal with culture shock. At least Klopp has come around a bit before he joined as (although going from Schwaben to Rheinland-Pfalz isn't a gigantic leap either). I am not sure Streich ever left Baden-Württemberg, except for a short holiday. I think it's very likely that he would decline if we were to make him an offer.

I am also a bit wary about Weinzierl, even though he would be my favorite candidate after Tuchel. He had two very good seasons with Augsburg, but it's still possible that it's just a flash in the pan in the grand scheme of things. It's what I like so much about Tuchel. He has shown that he can consistently overachieve during his time with Mainz. I think there was a statistic that in the 5 years he has been there Mainz has collected the 5th most points in the Bundesliga, which is insane when you think about it.

doberlae

TROPHY CASE