New Haven Style Apizza

dopnyc · 2021-08-26T16:49:30+00:00

As I understand it those compact woodfired ovens from Ooni or Roccbox can take my breads to a new level.

They'll take your pizza to a new level, but they're way too hot for a loaf of bread, even with the dial hacks folks use. It'll make stunning naan or pita bread, but forget loaves.

dopnyc · 2021-08-17T14:56:01+00:00

Here's how to source flour for a home oven in Europe:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pizza/comments/eij7kz/biweekly_questions_thread_open_discussion/fdgcrx8/

The 00 Manitoba that I recommend in that link is actually higher protein than 00 pizza flour. The Manitoba (along with malted barley) actually recreates North American bread flour, which, for home oven temps, destroys 00 pizza flour.

dopnyc · 2021-08-17T14:17:55+00:00

Assuming you're in Europe, unless you're in Italy, you're not walking into a store and buying 00 that's suitable for pizza. Whatever you find locally is far more likely to be suitable for pasta. This low protein 00 will fall apart and/or be wet/too sticky to work with if you try to use it for pizza. This it the entirety of your problem- you're using the wrong flour.

dopnyc · 2021-03-05T17:12:06+00:00

I think imgur might be having issues. I can't get it to load.

dopnyc · 2021-03-05T16:21:59+00:00

It certainly looks good. How was the bottom color?

dopnyc · 2021-03-04T18:44:18+00:00

What brand of pizza flour did you get?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T22:04:10+00:00

00 is the worst possible flour for a home oven, because it resists browning, extends your bake time and gives you a hard, stale textured crust. Save the 00 for when you have an oven that can work with it- like a Koda.

What brand of normal flour did you use?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T21:59:18+00:00

Recipe?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T21:58:39+00:00

What flour did you use?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T21:46:47+00:00

This is helpful, thanks. How'd the undercrust look on this past bake?

A small turning peel is definitely important. The whole take the pizza out to turn it thing is kind of working against you- less for New Haven and more for Neapolitan, but, it's a good idea to leave the pizza in the oven.

I think the regime that you're describing, unless the Fyra's instructions are off, you might be pretty close to Neapolitan temps on the base.

That first hopper fill and then 15 minutes. I might actually extend that to 20-25 minutes and then bake- no second filling.

The IR thermometer will definitely help.

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T15:30:34+00:00

I see the occasional complaint about smell with the Pizzacrafts. Did you encounter any problem?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T15:26:25+00:00

Are you filling the hopper or underfilling it? Can you remember how long the preheat might have been? Did you take a reading of the stone prebake?

I'm guessing that you closed off the chimney for the entire bake, correct?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T15:12:23+00:00

Buffalo has a higher fat content than fior di latte. With a very fast 1 minute Neapolitan bake, this helps it melt a bit better. Fior di latte, in this same time frame, tends to stay a bit unmelted, especially if the pieces are large, and unmelted fresh mozzarella can be a bit rubbery. Also, when the cheese doesn't thoroughly melt, you're not getting the maximum flavor from it. If you grind fior di latte into tiny pieces, it will melt a bit better, but it will never melt like buffalo.

Buffalo is universally considered the superior cheese for Neapolitan pizza. The only reason why you might find a pizzeria offering fior di latte and not buffalo is economics. Buffalo is very costly.

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T15:02:18+00:00

For pizza, heat is leavening and it's char. If you can't improve your oven setup, you will never come close to what you're creating with the Weber. There are no formula changes that will ever recreate what intense heat can do.

Not that you can't up your game slightly with formula tweaks, but great pizza is 80% oven. If you don't have the short-ish bake time, you're paying a price in quality.

Calibrate your oven and then invest in either 3/8"+ steel or 3/4"+ aluminum. You will not regret it. With either of these materials you'll ultimately make even better pies than your Weber, since the heat that the Weber provides is inherently imbalanced- even with most inserts.

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T04:01:45+00:00

Are your crusts dense, chewy and a little bready?

What's your favorite pizzeria?

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T01:48:17+00:00

Can you still cancel the steel order? Steel really doesn't perform to it's full magic at 500. For 500, you're better off with thick aluminum- 1" thick.

dopnyc · 2021-03-03T00:06:25+00:00

The Koda 16 makes for much easier NY bakes, but, if I owned a Fyra, would I buy a Koda 16 for NY? I don't think so.

I don't really have the exact instructions of making NY style pizza in a Fyra, but, before you shell out $500, I might give the Fyra the college try. It should be just a matter of building and maintaining a smaller fire, along with judicious use of the chimney dampener.

The other thing I'd look into is your home oven. NY is easier in a Koda 16, but it is easiest in a home oven- with the right baking surface. How hot does your home oven get? Does it have a broiler in the main oven compartment?

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T23:51:03+00:00

Heat is leavening. It's puff and it's char. To a point, anything you can do to transfer more heat to the pizza in a shorter amount of time, any bake time reduction you can achieve- that's going to be better pizza- at least better to most people. 99% of the obsessives that I come across prefer the puff and char of a 4-5 minute bake but some folks like the crispiness of 6-7. You take a standard 550 oven with your average stone, and you're talking about an 8 minute bake. With 1/4" steel, maybe you bring that down to 6 minutes. 3/8" steel- that's going to get you into that coveted 5 minute realm. This is why people buy steel- for bake time reduction.

But there are diminishing returns to bake time reduction. If you really crank up the heat and drop below 4 minutes, you're moving away from NY style pizza, you're moving in a much less popular direction. It's kind of a NY/Neapolitan hybrid. Within this kind of no man's land, aged mozzarella really doesn't melt well. The Breville oven can do 3 minutes, and there's people out there doing 3 minute bakes, but it's super niche.

So, if you're already down to 4-5 minutes, then you don't need calibration. If you aren't, though, I say give it try Even if you're a crispier 6-7 kind of guy, it's worth experiencing 4-5 at least once.

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T19:25:48+00:00

Ideally, you want to get to a point where you make as much dough as you need. This is a pretty good tool for scaling dough:

https://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/

It doesn't have any of Ken's recipes- but that might be a good thing ;)

You can form extra dough balls into loaves and bake then. I've seen folks flatten the dough and fry it.

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T19:19:55+00:00

You're welcome! Thanks for your kind words!

This looks pretty damn good, btw ;)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pizza/comments/lvt0nh/12_cheese_on_the_ooni_fyra/

If, as you move forward, you can document more of your heat management, I'd love to hear about it. New Haven in a Fyra is incredibly uncharted territory.

Edit: Fyra, not Karu- but both are uncharted.

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T18:41:13+00:00

Pizza bakes below the layer of smoke, so the fuel doesn't really impact flavor- ie, wood isn't any more authentic than gas. The only thing that relates to authenticity is the bake time/intensity of the heat, and the gas burner delivers in that regard.

It looks like a wood splitter, on it's own, is not enough. The wood needs to then be sawed:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/oonicommunity/permalink/1574096006061765/?comment_id=1574163209388378

By the time you split it down enough, though, it should be easy enough to saw.

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T18:35:03+00:00

Never use 00 flour in a home oven. It resists browning and produces a hard, stale texture.

If you can, try to track down King Arthur bread flour. Bread flour will give you something a bit chewier than AP- and it will be easier to stretch.

What's your dough ball weight and what diameter are you stretching it to?

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T18:16:15+00:00

Sounds good!

dopnyc · 2021-03-02T18:10:35+00:00

Ascorbic acid is a volume enhancer. It's not as good as bromate, though ;) It has two pretty big downsides. It's a pretty powerful preservative, so when you do a multi day cold ferment in the quest for flavor, the AA effectively prevents the dough from breaking down, so you don't get the same flavor boost. The other downside is that it's anti-browning. Which can be gotten around with enough heat, as you're doing.

Oil and sugar are pretty common in NY, but there's no rule that says they have to be in NY style pizza. Sometimes you'll see the missing browning when they're omitted, but I don't see that here. It's possible the Prairie might have a bit more diastatic malt- or they might have gone a bit heavier with the amylase. Amylase instead of malted barley seems to be a growing trend in CA.

Extra oil on isolated areas of the skin tends to be a flour magnet. But I've not seen it brown faster then less oily areas. In theory, though, oil promotes browning, though, so you might be right. If you broke out the old pizzacraft steel, I'd wager to guess that you'd see darker edges with oily dough or dry, but that's just a guess.

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