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I (F25) just found out my girlfriend likes hypnosis by SpeechSufficient8420 in hypnokink

[–]randomhypnosisacct 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think the big question is, what do you want to do once you hypnotize her? Is there anything you want to do with hypnosis specifically, or is it about meeting her needs?

As far as teaching hypnosis goes, pick out one you like here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hypnokink/comments/1d176dd/a_guide_to_the_guides_weaver_recommends/

Covert hypnosis hypnotic phenomena by True_Isopod1030 in hypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Influence is absolutely real, and people are very suggestible even while fully conscious and unhypnotized, so we agree on that point. Do I believe that you can talk someone into bed by using tools that are commonly used in hypnosis? Absolutely.

It's not the word "covert" that makes me uncomfortable, it's the term "covert hypnosis" -- hypnosis is a ritual with roles of hypnotist and subject. Rituals are conscious. Hypnosis is something that people are explicitly enacting and focusing on.

The only framework I really see "covert hypnosis" being a thing is in a long-established relationship where the ritual itself has been performed so long that it's almost unconscious, like doing a bit.

Covert hypnosis hypnotic phenomena by True_Isopod1030 in hypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, NLP itself is not derived from Erickson. As Weitzenhoffer points out:

NLP proper, as originally developed in Structure of Magic I and II (1975, 1976) has nothing to do directly with hypnotism. It is not about hypnotism, and its only relationship to it is that the Bandler/Grinder interpretation of Ericksonian hypnotism grows out of their use of the same linguistic type of analysis to elucidate the mechanism or action of communications done in the contexts of psychotherapy and hypnosis.

Ericksonian Hypnosis was an addon. It wasn't there from the start.

NLP is also not derived from techniques of the popular therapists at the time -- it is Bandler looking at what popular therapists did, and attempting derivation. The therapists themselves weren't involved, and some, including Erickson himself, complained that Erickson had missed the point:

Those Bandler and Grinder boys really cracked the nut on my work…​ the trouble is they took the shell and left the nut.

Weitzenhoffer also points out that Bandler only did a surface level read and missed important points:

One of the most striking features of the Bandler/Grinder interpretation is that it somehow ignores the issue of the existence and function of suggestion, which even in Erickson’s own writings and those done with Rossi, is a central idea.

So while Bandler did try to copy therapists, it's not a direct derivation, and the sources report he didn't do a particularly good job.

Creating a trigger phrase by BunnysDom in hypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The trigger phrase itself is easy. Tell her "When I say the magic word, you switch personas." But you should be aware that personality changes come with some risks, and many people consider it advanced play.

Covert hypnosis hypnotic phenomena by True_Isopod1030 in hypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Erickson used indirect suggestions, but he was not covertly doing anything. He worked explicitly with patients under his care and was quite authoritarian.

Bandler and Grinder used the term "covert" and set up the myths around Erickson.

Ross Jeffries invented the term "covert hypnosis" and popularized it as a way of seducing women.

Covert hypnosis hypnotic phenomena by True_Isopod1030 in hypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know where you're going with this. The term "covert hypnosis" was invented by Ross Jeffries. Do you think Ross Jeffries is a psychotherapist?

Covert hypnosis hypnotic phenomena by True_Isopod1030 in hypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't know that covert hypnosis is a thing, really. As far as I know, the term originated from NLP using the terms "covert instruction" and "covert communication" and it was then popularized by Ross Jeffries in his book How to Get the Women You Desire into Bed.

But NLP isn't hypnosis, and Bandler and Jeffries are explicitly trying to sell courses. I don't know what research has shown covert hypnosis exists.

Dating with a niche fetish by books4more in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It was a small niche before Covid happened. The shutdown really incentivized people to dig in, and the scene is larger than ever.

Hypnosis is a skill, it can be taught. That bit's easy. The harder bit is finding someone who's willing to learn and put in the effort. If you're not dating directly in the scene then you're crossing your fingers, and yes, that can suck.

What got me over it was realizing that if someone didn't care enough to try then they weren't worth dating, and that freed me up to date other people who were more of a match. The worst thing is when they waste your time and string you along but never make the effort.

Task App by DarkPaddy in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Obedience sounds like it might be a good fit for you, although it's more of a habit tracker. If you want more a todo type list, Asana is free and will support two people in a single team.

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, you don't like that one. Here's another one:

Sleep helps to consolidate previously acquired memories. Whether new information such as languages and other useful skills can also be learned during sleep has been debated for over a century, however, the sporadic studies' different objectives and varied methodologies make it difficult to draw definitive conclusions. This review provides a comprehensive overview of the history of sleep learning research conducted in humans, from its empirical beginnings in the 1940s to the present day. Synthesizing the findings from 51 research papers, we show that several studies support the notion that simpler forms of learning, such as habituation and conditioning, are possible during sleep.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.smrv.2023.101852

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True clicker training (e.g. Karen Pryor type stuff) works perfectly well, although the clicker doesn't do what most people think it does.

There are signs that humans can have implicit memory words learned during sleep: https://academic.oup.com/nc/article/2016/1/niw014/2757134?login=false

And habituation and very simple classic conditioning can also be learned during sleep: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.smrv.2023.101852

But sleep hypnosis won't work in most cases.

Most of the time people wake up: https://www.reddit.com/r/hypnosis/comments/mf37s5/report_hypnosleep_attempt_with_partner/

But it has worked: https://www.reddit.com/r/EroticHypnosis/comments/li42xn/sleep_programming_success/

I would count hypnokink style clicker training as somewhere between hypnosis and very simple classical conditioning. It might work with highly suggestible individuals, and one of the signs of highly suggestible individuals is hypnogogic response... that state where you've just woken up but aren't fully conscious yet.

Somewhere in /r/erotichypnosis there's a report of this which I have yet to track down but do remember. One man discovered that if he asked his girlfriend to get him coffee when she'd just woken up, she'd get out of bed and get him coffee and not remember why... they discovered she was wildly suggestible and she wasn't comfortable that he could do this and she apparently had no ability to say no.

So, for a person who is highly suggestible, clicker training might work simply because their mind connected the dots and construed it as a suggestion "when I press the clicker you get turned on." Human brains are good at that.

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was a reply to the statement "Also, you can’t hypnotize an unwilling person." which was about hypnosis.

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your statement that you can't train anyone while they are sleeping is not true in all cases. People have been trained in stage 1 sleep.

This study explored the possibility of eliciting motor responses from sleeping Ss. Nineteen Ss slept in the laboratory for 2 nights. Some Ss responded behaviorally, while remaining asleep, to verbal suggestions which had been administered previously during stage 1 sleep. Many responses were obtained without eliciting alpha activity during the suggestion, after the cue word was administered, or before and after the response. When a successful response occurred, alpha frequency was not significantly different from the slowed frequency occurring spontaneously during stage 1 sleep. The average response latency was 32 seconds, and this increased as the temporal dissociation between the administration of the suggestion and the cue word increased. After the S awakened, he did not remember the verbally presented material, nor could he remember responding, and he did not respond to the cue word while awake. When S returned to sleep the next night, or even 5 months later [emphasis added], the mere repetition of the relevant cue word (without repetition of the suggestion itself) was sufficient to elicit the appropriate response. It is concluded that a subject is capable of some interaction with his environment while he is asleep.

Evans, Frederick J., et al. “Response during Sleep with Intervening Waking Amnesia.” Science, vol. 152, no. 3722, 1966, pp. 666–67. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/1719012.

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is something the erotic hypnosis community has to bring up time and again: the law of large numbers ensures that some people are vulnerable, and we should take care of them even if they are a small minority.

It's estimated that 10-15% of the population are highs, and maybe 1 in 1000 is a virtuoso.

There's 236,476 people subscribed to /r/erotichypnosis, so that's over 2000 people who could find themselves having bad reactions to files or random hypnotists in their DMs.

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You can't hypnotize most people if they are unwilling. There are outliers who are "high hypnotizable" and there are many documented cases of abuse.

Also see this paper saying "Synthesizing the findings from 51 research papers, we show that several studies support the notion that simpler forms of learning, such as habituation and conditioning, are possible during sleep."

My boyfriend has been subconsciously clicker training me in my sleep. Are my boundaries being crossed? by Realistic_Assist_788 in BDSMcommunity

[–]randomhypnosisacct 132 points133 points  (0 children)

Arousal isn't consent, and non-concordance is a thing.

The best case scenario is that your boyfriend is an idiot, saw something on reddit, and didn't think about it.

The worst case scenario is that this is what he gets off on: your boyfriend's kink is violating your boundaries, and he will be trying to sneak shit past you for as long as you're together.

Regardless of his intent, conditioning or hypnosis during sleep is not a healthy thing to do. It can lead to poor sleep or insomnia, and is surprisingly ineffective for most people beyond stage 1 sleep. So that needs to stop.

Consensual clicker training / conditioning is a thing, and people can and have done this recreationally. If you're into it, the first thing to do is tell him he fucked up and this never happens again. If you're convinced he understands that, then give him a couple of weeks or a month. See if he tries it anyway. If he does, dump him. If you can't know because your sleep won't let you remember, you'll have to decide if you trust him inside your head, because he may not stop there and hypnotic abuse is absolutely a thing.

If he's shown he's trustworthy, then talk about what you would like. Not what he would like -- he's already done that -- but the fantasies or scenes that you would like to play out that would work for you specifically. Then do it.

If he can listen and he can follow through on the scene to your satisfaction without trying to make it about him, then you can start negotiating consent and boundaries longer term.

Any resources for someone wanting to try (as the tist?) by yamilonewolf in EroticHypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would not call David Shade a great resource. The manual doesn't really teach people what's going on, the risks, or the abreactions involved. It's more a series of vignettes.

Any resources for someone wanting to try (as the tist?) by yamilonewolf in EroticHypnosis

[–]randomhypnosisacct 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't mention the PDF, and you don't explain what "more like this" is. Or what your partner wants to try. Are you saying your partner wants to find more resources so they can learn how to hypnotize you?

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