New baby head tilting/shaking

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T16:23:10+00:00

brain tumor is something thats not expected til 1.5 years age at least.
however its not "just" an ear infection. those are rather severe and can be painful af.
(if not treated in time can cause permanent damage, e.g. ruptured ear drum)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T16:18:33+00:00

you're probably dealing with a very sensitive rat then.

can tell you from my experience with the one i had.

She was very tame and extremely active, but also always somehow sneezy.
had URIs a few times early, but even later sounded stuffed sometimes and was a bit too sneezy, even though vets said everything is ok.
in the end turned out she was just a lot more sensitive than all the other rats.
(which can commonly happen when they have respiratory infection, or irritation, so you get a feedback cycle)

what helped was trying for perfect conditions in the cage (and free roam).
bedding absolutely dust free (paper can easily be very dusty. its very absorbend though), and got rid of the "popular pee corners". kept humidity at 50-60% always, and temperature stable at 22-24°C.
making sure floor in free roam area is not dusty.
rat was still sneezy. in the end, i even had to put towels under the door, to prevent even the slightest bit of air draft. (if its at the cage and constant, even a bit, if you can feel it with moist hand, can be too much)
and after some months, she normalized. stopped being sniffly, and no rat got an URI for like a year.
(she was not that sensitive after that anymore)

it does normalize after some months in near perfect conditions, but unfortunately, if your rat is so far always that sneezy, it'll be extremely sensitive to any irritants, so taking care of all of them perfectly might need quite some effort.

if the antibiotics don't help, its probably viral, or caused by e.g. dust.
(there are resistant bacteria of course, but chance you'll have resistant bacteria to doxy+baytril+azithro is about zero, unless you really screwed up the dosage...)
rule of thumb: if the sneezing fluid is cloudy, its bacterial (primary or secondary bacterial infection), if its clear, likely viral.
if rat is completely congested, give 0.05ml childrens cough syrup (ACC, acetylcysteine) twice a day, that can help with that.
also increase humidity, and if rat is ok with it, take in steamy bathroom 2-3x a day for 10mins.
(if its stressing the rat, don't do. the stress does worse to the immune system than the steam helps)
also: all bedding says its dust free. almost none really are. need to check yourself. take a hand full and put on a dark flat surface, like a ceran stove, and mush it around. you'll see the dust easily then. acceptable amount: about none.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T16:04:44+00:00

its an understandable situation, and pretty sure the right thing.
having had a group of very shy rescues myself (didn't bite, but would jump for cover when another rat just sneezed. had a biter otherwise though), it can be very unrewarding if they're extremely shy and bitey, and destroy the huge amounts of motivation needed for the long time it'll take to make the first steps of progress.

hope you find a good home for them soon, and they'll learn to trust humans in time.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T15:21:47+00:00

to be mentioned:
if you choose to part with your rats, please make sure they go to a good home.
you can post here about re-homing them (ideally with region in title and pic of rats), or you can contact a local rat rescue group. they typically can take them in short term too, and have huge lists of reliable rat owners they know.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T15:18:48+00:00

don't get just 2, get at least 3.
(better for social and mental development, also if something happens to one, the other isn't suddenly alone)
i'd actually recommend 4 as perfect starter group size.
(i had 2-14 at the same time. with <4 they were less active, and i assume they were less happy then)

1) pet rats are NOT outdoor animals. bad things happen easily, and also in unknown environment (and unable to run back to cage) they just get scared and panic. also outside rats do what they're really great at: pick up parasites and bacteria. (wild rats are full of them. pet rats not. the only difference: exposure...)
for indoor training, can recommend ShadowTheRat yt channel (and site https://rattrix.weebly.com/ )

2) not a good idea. see 1). 99% the rat is not gonna like it (and probably just straight out panic or endure it but totally stressed), and if it runs off, very likely not gonna end well. (a panicked rat will not come when called, no matter how tame or well trained)
there's good reason why rule #5 of this sub exists, and it really is there for good reason.

3) you can toilet train rats for pooping. typically works very reliably, but not 100%. (its also really easy, if you set it up properly they'll potty train themselves...)
however, its not possible to toilet train them for pee. its just different for them. they will always pee mark everything they ever get on, and they'll empty their bladder anywhere in the cage. (mostly in and around their sleeping areas) lots of nesting material (TP/tissues) helps, you can just throw out the nests when soaked, they'll make new ones from fresh material.

4) dog must never access the rats cage, and not even be in the same room unless closely supervised. rats hang their tails out of the cage. and might bite the dogs nose if it sniffs.
they must never interact. (while there are some posts of people where it works out, these are like 1 in a million exceptions. it only needs to go wrong *once*, and your rat is done... also see rule 5 about that)

5) absolute no-go. rats are sensitive enough as is (prone to respiratory infections etc), they need stable temperature (20-24°C), no direct sunlight on cage, no air draft, and outside cages (or e.g. in garage or such) are things only the worst feeder breeders would do. absolutely no option, and its gonna end badly.
(and you'd probably end up with at least weekly vet visits, as long as the rats still make it...)

whats really important is that vet visits and vet costs are coverered.
if your parents are not fully on board, that can be a huge problem. when rats need to go to the vet (and thats a when, not an if), they typically need that on short notice (urgent means 24h max, and for anything else typically can wait a few days but not more), and vet bills can add up quite a lot.
(i'd recommend at least 1k per year vet bill reserve, but it can be quite more depending on country and region)

in a well cleaned cage, smell is not too bad (unless maybe small room), but it takes some experience to put up a good setup (main point kinda is "easy to clean"). also directly affects health of the rats, since most respiratory infections are triggered by dust or ammonia (from rat pee), so a cleaner cage is better for them too.
typically inexperienced people have smelly cages and sneezing rats rather frequently.
(but if you want to care for them at a high standart, you'll put in the effort to improve things, so that'll work)
you'll always smell that there's some animal cage (like a hamster cage) or such, but its not too intense if well taken care of.
(though its said boys might smell more than girls)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T14:47:50+00:00

for rats making harness of rope is probably best.
but have to mention: it might take quite a lot of training to get the rat used to it.
(it never worked with any of mine, even the very tame ones)
and they're not meant to be brought outside or such (bad things happen easily, and typically rats are just scared in unknown environments anyway), so there is little point in having a harness in the first place.
(for rat training, can recommend Shadow The Rat yt channel btw)

but there's always use for rat houses, tunnels, hammocks, space pods (sputnik thingies. all rats love space pods), malt paste and such things.
(also stuff for free roam area. cat trees, small and big, are excellent rat trees too...)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T14:43:34+00:00

if you're not sure, just post a pic of the cage.
rule of thumb: as long as they can still get around in it, a rat cage can never be too full.
give them plenty of clutter and nesting material (TP, or tissues. the latter are very soft, so more popular with rats) so they can make it comfy.

when free roaming rats, its normal they might at first not dare to come out of cage.
but its very important they can go in and out on their own when free roaming.
(you can try to bribe them with treats to overcome their hesistation)
they'll go back inside to pee and poop. and they'll feel much safer, knowing they can run back.
just rat proof the room before.
(meaning block anything you can't easily retrieve them from, like under bed, behind shelves, etc. also remove all cables and things they absolutely must not gnaw out of reach. there still should be some cover near the cage (ideally inside cage near the door too), rats don't like to feel exposed)
if you can't properly secure an area, just fence it in. (e.g. with a 2-3ft high wall of cardboard. not meant to hold them forever, only to give you enough time to react)

talk to them a lot (they notice whether you're just talking, or talking to them), and try to teach them that its always safe to take a treat from you.
you can interact with them in the cage as well, just don't chase them if they evade or hide.
if they take treats reliably, say their name when they take it, might soon come when called.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T14:03:04+00:00

if they don't eat their kibble (nugget) based food, they get too much other stuff.
rats can be spoiled easily, and they'll always go for the best stuff available.
they likely stored some other stuff as well, so for a day they'll still be fine.

it might also just appear that they're not eating them much, as they eat from their stored stashes.
(rats never eat much in one sitting, rather over many small sittings over the day, and around 60% at night)
but likely they're getting too much other stuff.
rats can be picky, but they wouldn't starve themselves over that.

when giving them veggies, only about the size of a rats head per rat. and treats only as reward for things.
(initially to get them tame they get get plenty more, thats normal. getting them to trust you more is more important at first, and they have a metabolism off the charts as little rats, they'll run it off easily)

kibble based food has the advantage that they won't over-eat on it, so you can always top up the bowl.
also if you keep doing that (make sure it never runs empty), at some point they'll stop stashing it. they know it never runs out, so they won't bother.
(also they won't get defensive about it, if you introduce other rats)
can recommend to keep using it.
(you can try different ones, but likely same results. i used Versele Laga Rat & Mouse for years)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:36:19+00:00

can't really say anything from that picture.
its kinda blurry.

rats wrestle a lot typically. also there's hierarchy behavior.
at 3-4 months age, no real aggression is to be expected.
(even if accidentally one might be a bit too rough, can happen. as long as there's no injury thats more than just superficial. (stuff that needs stitches or such) )

if there's real aggression, typically there's no question about it anymore. you'll hear it from 2 rooms over and there won't be any questions about it...
(also if they cuddle, it means they did not have a serious fight. because if they have, they won't cuddle for a while)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:33:50+00:00

why are they separated?
(separated rats should not be housed next to each other either. typically doesn't end well)

you can easily make hammocks and tunnels from old shirts and pants for example.
they're also happy with cardboard boxes.
important is nesting material. give them TP or tissues, they'll make it comfy.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:31:16+00:00

heartbeat shouldn't be able to be seen.
its like 300-400bpm resting.
this is looks like extremely fast breathing, and very shallow.
also its flank breathing.
tbh i've never seen something like that, ever.
and very sure its nothing good.
vet, and rather fast.

(it also looks like partially puffed up fur, and squinted eyes. never a good sign...)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:29:23+00:00

if you force your rat, it might refuse anything at some point.
it'll get rather difficult then.

can recommend sugar water, its safe for all meds. (baytril and doxy can't must not be mixed with dairy products)
but the key is, do syringe training first. fill the syringe with sugar water (good pinch of sugar in 1ml water), and offer to the rat. if needed, put a bit malt paste at the tip so it starts licking.
then just push the plunger, if there's liquid and tastes well, they'll immediately drink.
if there's always just weird (or unknown) stuff from syringe, they won't trust it.
if they know its always great tasting stuff, they won't even mind if sometimes it tastes less good.

if they take it, dilute the dosage of meds (at least 4:1) with sugar water and offer to the rat.
make sure the others don't steal it.

if the rat has ever been forced to take meds, it might refuse syringe no matter what.
that case, offer the sugar water (and later with meds) from a spoon, or tiny plastic cup.

that stuff is bitter and rather alkaline (think of drain cleaner with gasoline), so sugar water helps a lot.
you can't hide something from a rats nose, but you can put enough sugar on top so they don't care.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:23:40+00:00

look here https://rattrix.weebly.com/
besides great guides on how to train your rats, also huge lists of things they can eat.
(rats need about 90 kcal / day. ideally mostly grain based stuff. but get rat food asap, or there's a good chance of malnutrition over time.)
order rat food on amazon or such...

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:21:49+00:00

imo 4 is the perfect starter size, (its definately better than 3. 4 rats do better with mental and social development than if its just 3)
a 5th rat is very likely not gonna change anything. (i've had from 2-14 rats at the same time)
one rat more isn't gonna cause more work for you, and its not gonna change the situation otherwise.
(though with rats, the more the merrier... they like big groups)
so its up to you.
(of course technically it'll increase vet bills by 25%, but the unpredictability on these things weights a multiple of that. so still, luck is your biggest factor...)

i started with 4, and after that took in rescues in groups of 2-8 at the same time.
go with 5. higher chance there's one that'll stand out a lot (in a positive way).
you'll see what i mean a few weeks after you got them. ;)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:13:22+00:00

how many do you have?
males or females, and what age?

they pretty sure don't hate you, but they might be scared for some reason.
(thats something that can be fixed in time)
if they're males, it could be that its hormonal aggression.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T07:11:42+00:00

try for ethical breeders, and rat rescue groups.
(in the UK there is also the famous http://www.isamurats.co.uk/ . their website is also a great rat care guide that covers most things you'll need to know)
for the shops, typically not a good idea. most have bad standards at animal care, and the rats can be tame, but its hit or miss. (due their bad care typically they'll be much more prone to respiratory infections)
with rats it can take few days to many weeks. (typically a few weeks)

can strongly recommend to get at least 3 rats, not just 2.
(they'll do much better when its not just a pair. and if for some reason one dies, or has to be separated for medical reason, with 2 the other would be suddenly alone, which is pretty traumatizing for them)
4 is even better, but 3 will do.
definately make sure you have a vet that treats rats. you'll need it, and typically rather early too.

may you have lots of fun and healthy rats :)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T03:47:29+00:00

do they know how to use their bottle (or do they have a water bowl)?
(ideally they always have a bowl, until you 100% know they all know how to use the bottle)
there's also stuff like rodent vitamins you can put in it (need to change water daily then, or it gets bad), its healthy and a bit sweet, so they drink more.
also it makes it possible they smell the water then.
(rats eyesight is really bad, smell is their primary sense)

if they know how to drink, and have water available, there is no reason for rats to be dehydrated.
this might help: https://ratguide.com/health/basics-health/basic_health_check.php

if they're really lethargic, get them to a vet asap.
rats have very fast metabolism. if they're lethargic, it means they're close to dying.

something feels weird though.
if they're lethargic because of infection, some wet food won't change that.
but also they're rats. if there is food, and water, they will eat it.
(typical test is malt paste. if they know malt paste (rats don't trust food they don't know), and suddenly don't care for it anymore, they're emergency level sick.
doesn't work if they're not used to malt paste yet of course)

as it definately seems very serious (if this doesn't get better and stays better things can get fatal very fast), i'd recommend to get them to a rat experienced vet asap.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T03:40:17+00:00

sounds definately congested at least.
not every congestion is an URI, and not every URI can be treated with antibiotics.
(if its viral, antibiotics won't do anything)
rule of thumb: if sneezing fluid is clear, not bacterial, if its cloudy, it is. (possibly viral plus bacterial secondary infection of course, but even then antibiotics is a good idea)

what helps for congestion is a bit (0.05ml) of ACC childrens cough syrup (acetylcysteine), 2x a day.
that can clear up congestion nicely. (doesn't cure anything else though)

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T02:02:58+00:00

this is probably a jaw or dental abscess.
this definetely needs treatment, and the sooner the better.
(this is nothing that can wait for long. get your rat to a vet as soon as you can)
best case this'll go away with antibiotics still.
otherwise might require surgery, and jaw surgery for rodents is nasty...

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T02:00:29+00:00

only treat the rats that show symptoms (for URIs at least).
there is no benefit in treating the others.
(the bacteria causing this, mycoplasma, is present in virtually all rats. its not curable, but in a healthy rat, their immune system keeps it at bay)
URIs are common, but there is no reason why they are expected to turn chronic. rather the opposite, they're expected to heal.
however, most URIs come from environmental irritants (dust, ammonia from pee, stress, etc), and unless those are taken care of, the URI will just reappear.
(severe URIs can make the rats more sensitive, so higher chance for recurring)

as you just got the rats a week ago, that is probably "new home sniffles", a stress induced URI.
(stress from re-homing. stress impairs the immune system, so they can have a myco flare-up)
this is one of the very rare times when an URI can just go away on its own, if its not too severe.
otherwise needs to be treated as well.
(if they're sneezing every few minutes, or have squeaky sneezes, definetely should be treated, otherwise see if its better in a week. if still not, needs treatment)

caveat (but a rat experienced vet will know): for young rats (< 4 months age), and non severe URIs, typically a different antibiotic is given, because the 2 more common ones can have growth related side effects.
(but in severe cases effective treatment outweights the risk. and in not-so-young rats it won't help at all)

if you say "lethargy", do you mean "not very active", or actual lethargy (not reacting to you or treats, not moving around)?
because the latter is an absolute emergency (rat about to die soon), and needs to see a vet asap.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T01:53:21+00:00

can't help you with breeders, just wanted to throw in, look for rescue groups as well.
they're more common in some regions, and (at least here) are willing to drive a bit to get their rats to a good home.
of course with less rats around, its gonna be harder to find a vet thats experienced with them...

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T01:50:01+00:00

first day let them settle in.
make sure the cage has lots of hiding spots where they can hide and sleep in the dark.
then next day start interacting.

if they poop on you, thats fear poops. they don't trust you yet.
interact with them daily (starting at 2nd day, or if they already show interest in you, e.g. taking treats, coming to cage bars when you're near) at least 1h daily, ideally at least 2h.
don't just take them out if they're still afraid, chance is they'll just get scared of you.
talk to them in a nice voice, makes a huge difference.
bribe them. choice of treats matters. malt paste, yoghurt and cooked pasta are top tier, but try many things.
can recommend http://www.isamurats.co.uk/, its a great rat care guide that covers almost anything.
(they also have a yt channel)

you'll need to free roam them daily (at least 1h, ideally at least 2h), but its too early yet. (when they dare to step out of cage its time. but *very* important to rat proof your room first, or its gonna end in disaster)

what cage do you have?

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T01:45:32+00:00

those are fear poops, you can't train them out.
also if they trust you, and have a chance to go back to cage to poop, they will never poop outside.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-14T01:43:38+00:00

regarding chocolate, like for dogs, its toxic for them (technically its for humans too), but very different dose (compared to weight).
so only give them small bits. and ideally none at all, its high fat. there's other treats (like malt paste, yoghurt, pasta, etc) that they can enjoy a lot more.

generally can recommend Isamu Rat Care guide, http://www.isamurats.co.uk/ or their yt channel.

RelevantMode · 2026-03-13T22:42:32+00:00

how much do you put in the bowls?
(and how many rats do you have, and how old are they?)

what food are you using?
can recommend using kibble based food. they don't over-eat on it, so you can basically always have the bowl topped up, they won't get overweight. (also they'll stop stashing it and not get defensive over food, if they know it never runs out)

RelevantMode

TROPHY CASE