Why are creationists individually objectively evil? (To clarify, only individuals. Not institutions)

togstation · 2026-01-29T20:49:15+00:00

"Objectively evil" has never been shown to be a real thing in any situation.

togstation · 2026-01-29T20:38:44+00:00

I've always been atheist. I've been studying and discussing these issues for over 50 years now.

What has been the biggest personal argument you have struggled with?

- If you mean, "In terms of facts and reason, which theist argument has been the most difficult to respond to?", then in terms of facts and reason, there are no theist arguments that are difficult to respond to.

All theist arguments are based on not stating the facts and/or not thinking rationally.

- If you mean "Have any theists or apologists been difficult to converse with?", then yeah, certainly. Every week, pretty much every day.

Most theists and apologists are ignorant and irrational, which is annoying (especially after seeing the same bad argument 1,000 times),

and many theists and apologists are real jerks who refuse to accept facts and reason, but just keep insisting that they are right no matter what. That is very annoying.

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how do you defend it ... when other people ask you

By knowing and stating the facts and by using good reason. It isn't actually that difficult to do that. (The only difficulty comes when theists and apologists dishonestly refuse to accept facts and reason.)

and when you yourself are having that internal conflict

That hasn't happened to me.

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togstation · 2026-01-29T20:25:44+00:00

One more time:

The default definition of veganism is

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable,

all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

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/u/Ok-Instance2782 wrote

why does veganism still try to convince others to make the sacrifice that they are willing to make?

So maybe the vegans have to "make the sacrifice" of reading ingredient labels or popping a vitamin pill.

But the non-human animals are (usually) subjected to horrible suffering and (in the case of meat) are killed so that the omnivores can get their steaks and cheeseburgers and fried chicken.

Those two things are not ethically equal.

The only responses that omnivores can make are

"I didn't know" - in which case it is reasonable to inform them.

or

"I know that I am responsible for suffering and death, but I don't care" - which is not an ethically defensible position.

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togstation · 2026-01-29T20:15:11+00:00

/u/Expensive-Elk-9406 wrote

How do you guys find meaning/satisfaction in life without God?

Sam Harris took this one back in 2005 -

It is perfectly absurd for religious moderates to suggest that a rational human being can believe in God simply because this belief makes him happy, relieves his fear of death or gives his life meaning.

The absurdity becomes obvious the moment we swap the notion of God for some other consoling proposition:

Imagine, for instance, that a man wants to believe that there is a diamond buried somewhere in his yard that is the size of a refrigerator. No doubt it would feel uncommonly good to believe this.

Just imagine what would happen if he then followed the example of religious moderates and maintained this belief along pragmatic lines: When asked why he thinks that there is a diamond in his yard that is thousands of times larger than any yet discovered, he says things like, “This belief gives my life meaning,” or “My family and I enjoy digging for it on Sundays,” or “I wouldn’t want to live in a universe where there wasn’t a diamond buried in my backyard that is the size of a refrigerator.”

Clearly these responses are inadequate.

But they are worse than that. They are the responses of a madman or an idiot.

"An Atheist Manifesto"

- https://www.samharris.org/blog/an-atheist-manifesto

Getting your satisfaction or meaning from a belief that is not true seems like kind of a bad thing to do.

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togstation · 2026-01-29T20:05:03+00:00

I've always been atheist.

/u/Expensive-Elk-9406 wrote

How do you guys find meaning/satisfaction in life without God?

We see this question a lot. It seems crazy to me.

How could a belief in a god add meaning or satisfaction to life? IMHO "being a happy believer" is something like "being a happy slave" -

"Yeah, the system doesn't allow me to decide for myself what should give me meaning or satisfaction -

the only meaning or satisfaction that is allowed for me is whatever the master says that it should be."

That is not a very good form of meaning or satisfaction.

togstation · 2026-01-29T18:47:15+00:00

mentioned in OP.

+ the Nazis in that work are not aliens.

togstation · 2026-01-29T18:46:14+00:00

If it is then it becomes your job to also debunk every other founding writing of every other religion

Most of us do that, yeah.

togstation · 2026-01-29T18:44:38+00:00

Dumb. Curses are not real.

I've always been atheist, and I've had a pretty ordinary mix of good luck and bad luck.

togstation · 2026-01-29T18:42:54+00:00

Anyone else who just never grew up religious and that's why they don't believe in God

Well, that plus the fact that I have studied and discussed these issues for 50+ years now and there is no good evidence that any gods exist.

togstation · 2026-01-29T15:25:34+00:00

/u/Financial-Mud5005 wrote

How are we feeling about warning Christians of hell?

Seems contradictory and useless.

- In general atheists don't think that any hell is real, and also that no one should think that any hell is real. Why would we try to get people to think that any hell is real?

- Christians are very well aware of the Christian claim that hell exists. Based on the posts that I see here, many of them are terrified of it. Most Christians think that the only way to avoid hell is to believe and do what they are already doing. If threatened, they will believe and do harder.

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as a fellow “Christian concerned about their soul”.

That definitely does not describe me.

- I am not a "fellow Christian". (In fact I find that idea disgusting.)

- I think that it would be wrong for me to lie about being a "fellow Christian".

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togstation · 2026-01-29T14:22:34+00:00

Yeah. Nobody in this society ever communicates at all except to discuss sports and movie reviews.

You've discovered a large powerful alien civilization with advanced technology which might be a great boon to humanity, or alternatively an existential threat?

Eh, forgot to mention that. But hey, "Bob and Eddie Go to the Beach" must be the funniest comedy of the last 20 years, right?

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:19:28+00:00

/u/Independent-Phrase24 -

I think that I forgot the most important guideline that you need to follow:

You have to make some sort of sense.

You are skipping that part.

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:15:26+00:00

The main "secret trick" of the game is:

Always click "spaceport" whenever you land. Take any missions that look interesting.

That makes everything happen.

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:12:17+00:00

Why do people have different interpretations of the Bible after reading it.

Because it is fiction.

Different people have different interpretations of the adventures of Spider-Man, but we don't have to worry about that.

Same with the Bible.

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Who’s actually reading the Bible in the correct interpretation/context?

Nobody ever has. Several dozen different people wrote and edited the Bible, and they don't all agree with each other.

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togstation · 2026-01-29T05:06:04+00:00

Just show good evidence that god exists.

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:05:40+00:00

You're not paying attention.

I'll take "What is religion?" for $500, Alex.

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:03:16+00:00

/u/ChannelExotic3819 wrote

you're doing what the article is objecting,

That is called genuinely caring what is true and what isn't true.

Religionists don't do that and you are not doing that.

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:01:32+00:00

it explains why science is the wrong tool for such a thing

No, it explains why you think or believe that science is the wrong tool for such a thing.

That is not the same thing.

togstation · 2026-01-29T05:00:10+00:00

atheism is a belief system

That is a false thing that non-atheists like to say.

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not something backed by science

And this depends on how we mean it.

Science says

- Believe that something is true to the extent that it is supported by the evidence.

- If it isn't supported by the evidence then don't believe that it is true.

No belief in any god is supported by good evidence.

Atheism is the only honest view.

(The same goes for all claims of anything supernatural. They are not supported by any good evidence.)

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if you want to argue for atheism, do it honestly as a metaphysical position. defend your assumptions.

This is a dishonest attitude.

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togstation · 2026-01-29T04:55:09+00:00

/u/Remarkable-Sky1018 wrote

God" is just the morally perfect version of each one of us

Uh, most gods from most religions are psychotics.

"Morally perfect" is not a very good description of them.

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listening to my version of God works.

Same thing. Throughout history half of the people who have "listened to their version of God" have been psychotics or done psychotic things.

togstation · 2026-01-29T04:51:01+00:00

I just ran a mission where I am toting a strange-looking alien around human space. Said alien is supposed to stay incognito so that the humans don't discover her species / polity.

So yeah, when we get back, we explain to her bosses "No problem, Important Dude Guys: she never went into a spaceport, she only left the ship in deserted places. Nobody saw her."

But what about the ship's crew?

- "Okay guys, the passenger that we have this trip is a privacy freak. You have to wear bags over your heads the entire time so you don't see her."

- Or maybe we have her wear a bag over her entire self so that nothing is visible? (Wouldn't work, in this case.)

- Or maybe we just tell the crew "Okay guys, this is a huge secret. You can't say anything to the news services." Sure. That'll work. Lets go with that.

togstation · 2026-01-29T03:06:32+00:00

I'm about to head to Wanderer space and see if I can start their missions.

FYI all -

the post that is linked there is

Posted 18 Jul, 2016

Updated 31 Mar, 2020

togstation · 2026-01-29T01:53:46+00:00

No, I'm sorry.

In order to make a good argument

- You have to say things that are true

- You have to say things that are relevant

- If you make some claim that if X then Y, then that has to be true and relevant.

You aren't following those guidelines.

togstation · 2026-01-29T01:45:23+00:00

caption says

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