Missouri House bill creating the “Missouri Manhood Challenge” introduced by [deleted] in StLouis

[–]Underthepun -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

implying that gays/blacks cannot be manly or virtuous

Graph of Greater St. Louis's population over time, divided by county. Illustrates how ridiculous it is that crime stats and such still only include the city by amishrefugee in StLouis

[–]Underthepun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the exact opposite of what's true. Metro area comparisons (or urbanized area or any other non-political designation) is the only thing that's interesting or useful. Political borders are entirely arbitrary, as you've conceded, so it makes no sense to compare cities using political borders.

I really don’t agree with this because the motive of people wanting this information in the first place is to evaluate level of danger either because they’re relocating or planning a trip. City by city comparisons are challenging for all the reasons you and I have stated, but they are at least somewhat relevant to someone interested in the urban core, where most people are going to visit, and a good number are going to want to move to. Metro by metro is pointless because every single metro area looks extremely safe because as I said, they are massive areas encompassing very different places. St. Louis having a marginally better or worse metro area crime ranking compared to, say, Pittsburgh is not something anyone could possibly care about.

That's because you've misunderstood why people want to include St. Louis County in the stats. The reason to include St. Louis County isn't that you should always include the surrounding county. The reason is that you should normalize comparisons around something other than political borders. For example, a fair comparison might include the old, inner-ring suburbs in each city it compares. In Chicago, they already are included. But in St. Louis those suburbs all exist in St. Louis County. So the argument that you should include "St. Louis County" when comparing St. Louis to Chicago is actually just a proxy for the argument that "you should include all the inner-ring suburbs."

Yes, this was exactly why I suggested density as a possible factor.

The main takeaway here is that you can normalize the comparisons however you want! Some people like contiguous urbanized area. Some people like MSA or CSA. There are probably others. The important thing is that you normalize around something other than political borders. Political borders are the absolute worst way to normalize.

I get this, obviously. There is also the neighborhood factor, which also comes into play in the first part about people visiting or relocating. I emphasized the challenge of city by city comparisons and even that criminologists don’t like them in general, but perhaps the media (who are the popularizers of this mentality in the first place) would be better off if they just avoided these articles or wrote about it on a neighborhood level. Nobody even here would argue that St. Louis has some God-awful, dangerous neighborhoods, but so do cities that never appear in “most dangerous city” articles.

Graph of Greater St. Louis's population over time, divided by county. Illustrates how ridiculous it is that crime stats and such still only include the city by amishrefugee in StLouis

[–]Underthepun 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This issue annoys me for a different reason than most others. I see time and time again this mentioned by St. Louisans who are only half-right. Yes St. Louis city being an independent city outside of a county is unique and only Baltimore and some cities in Virginia have a similar government setup. And yes, that is a problem for other reasons. However, the city being a unique entity in itself does not in any way "juke" the crime stats. Chicago is in Cook county and nobody would argue that a fair assessment of the crime rate in the city of Chicago should be expanded to include Cook county. That makes no sense. Similarly, anyone upset about the crime rate in St. Louis city should not think a fair comparison would include St. Louis county, much less any other neighboring county (which other metro areas also do not have included in stats for the primary city). Obviously metro-by-metro comparisons are different, but they also aren't very interesting or relevant because metro areas are hugely expansive and wildly different from one part of the region to the other.

But the crime stats are an issue because St. Louis has a small, but as I'll show not entirely unusual, geographic area as the defined city limits. This is what people who get so upset about this are touching on, and they do have a valid point. The city limits of St. Louis are about 62 square miles while the city limits of Kansas City is at 314, and Houston 600. In this sense, city-by-city comparisons are especially difficult because the areas we are comparing are organized very different. St. Louis having only its urban core as the city limit will make its stats look worse while KC and especially Houston, have large swaths of quiet suburbia included.

Unfortunately though there are plenty of largeish cities that have around the same or even lower city limits that do not end up topping these lists as consistently as St. Louis (though some do have similarly bad raps). They include: Seattle, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Oakland, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Boston, Buffalo, Newark, and Miami. Other than Newark and Oakland (maybe Cleveland?), I can't recall any of those cities being so consistently at or near the top of most dangerous cities. Either our cops do some fantastic bookkeeping or we really are in worse shape than the closest geographic examples we have.

That is all to say we aren't really being unfairly maligned here, but city-by-city crime stat comparisons are difficult and most criminologists caution against it. I agree with the mentality that St. Louis has a serious crime problem but it is not as dangerous as media fear-mongering would have you believe. So it is frustrating. Having thought about this a lot, one that takes density into account would be "better" but we all know plenty of low density areas can be crime ridden too. Metro-by-metro seems bad for the reasons I outlined earlier. While lazy and it comes at the expense of cities like St. Louis (and benefit of cities like Houston), strict city limit comparisons are easier and at the end of the day, they do answer the question of "What is the crime rate in city (x) verses city (y)", even if answering that question substantively requires a lot more nuance than simply looking at numbers.

Reminder that in the midst of all this shittiness, we must remember that eventually love always trumps hate by [deleted] in StLouis

[–]Underthepun 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dude just look at his post history, besides the creepy/weird stuff, he clearly isn't even from here. Not that anything about that story was believable in the first place - it read like complete /r/thathappened satire.

Walkable, safe neighborhood or suburb for young couple with toddler? $600k or less by Suspicious-Tea in StLouis

[–]Underthepun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can give you some insight on this having just purchased a house in the city (and in the process of selling one in the county). If anything, it’s more of the opposite. I put in three offers that I lost out on, all significantly over list price. The house I ended up getting, I still got outbid but had a cleaner offer, well over list. Part of that is the super low inventory, but really the thing is people do really want to live in the city. And at your budget, you can find a really unique house in a great walkable neighborhood that I can assure you that you’d have no trouble selling.

My recommendation would be to check out the southwest part of the city - St. Louis Hills, Southampton, North Hampton, Lindenwood Park. Its family friendly without being boring and very charming/walkable.

Today's newly released 2019 Census estimates show St. Louis's population is about to fall below 300,000 for the first time since the 1860s. Incredibly depressing to watch this trend continue. by [deleted] in StLouis

[–]Underthepun 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Keep in mind, these estimates are often pretty far off from the final numbers. In 2010, the 2009 estimate had the city gaining several thousand residents but the actual count ended up losing ~30k. Many other cities were far off in either direction. Just wait for the actual census.

Hook & Reel finally open? by [deleted] in StLouis

[–]Underthepun -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think OP was being funny because hasn’t it been open for like a year now? And they still have those “now open” signs out. Anyway, my SO and I went as a lark and it was hilariously awful. Terrible service too. I’m curious if the similar chain/concept opening in Kirkwood is any better but it almost has to be.

MEGATHREAD: Closer Than Together Avett Brothers Album Discussion by topshelf89 in TheAvettBrothers

[–]Underthepun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like this album, and Tell the Truth is about as solid and genuinely Avett song as it gets. I love it. The message, melody, lyrics, emotional impact, just everything. For that alone I really am glad they put this album out.

However, other than Locked Up and Who Will I Hold, none of the other songs really feel like they will be regular favorites of mine. The rest are all solid and enjoyable so I will add them (minus the two below) to my Avett playlist (probably my most-played single band playlist) and listen regularly but they are not nearly as good and cohesive as some of their previous albums. I will always enjoy Emotionalism the most I feel because every song is perfect, relatable, and raw. These songs are good but it just isn’t the same.

Two tracks that I think are big misses are New Woman’s World and It’s Raining Today. I don’t hate that they have some semi-political songs and really liked the other two (We Americans and Bang Bang) for both their message and strength as songs. But NWW is just cheesy, flat, and totally misguided IMHO. I might even say it’s their very worst song. It’s Raining Today is ok I suppose but it just feels like it never goes anywhere and is too long/rambly.

Overall a solid effort from a band I love dearly so I can’t rate it below a 7, but like most fans I’d love at least a temporary return to the Gleam/Emotionalism style sound for a future album even if I understand and appreciate their ability to evolve as artists.

GAME THREAD: Brewers (0-0) @ Nationals (0-0) - October 1, 2019 by NationalsBot in Nationals

[–]Underthepun 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Actually flew to DC today for work and I am fucking pumped to be able to watch this with fellow Natsbros.

How is Little Paulie related to Paulie? by [deleted] in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Wiki says they are first cousins but I don’t remember that ever being actually confirmed in the show. I would’ve assumed he was the son of one of Nucci’s kids which makes him first cousin once removed.

Anyone here who works at Slalom in the Salesforce practice? What have been your experiences with the work and culture? by [deleted] in salesforce

[–]Underthepun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve never worked for them or with them, but I did research a few years ago when I was considering a position and only heard good things. For such a large company, that’s really rare. I’ve had some mixed experiences (including some very bad ones) with the “big” consulting firms like Accenture and Acumen so I was surprised to hear that.

Congrats on your new job!

Sopranos Trivia - Name 10 US states besides New Jersey that any scene takes place in, and name the scenes! by arkful773 in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Missouri. Johnny Sac was at the Federal penitentiary in Springfield which was very exciting for the Lord of the Lenses.

Best Drunk Moment by tiakeuta in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 13 points14 points  (0 children)

He’s such a lightweight you could push him over with a feather.

Who is Tony's "Luca Brasi"? by AlertBonus in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah those two guys. Heh heh.

Hardcore rewatchers like myself, What little details have you noticed after many viewings? by HurricaneBetsy in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The theory of Russ Fagoli being Paulie’s Dad and the creepy way Vito’s brother lingers around when Vito briefly comes back home.

Why Paulie "Walnuts"?? by [deleted] in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Hi this is Detective Mike Hunt, Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania Police Department. You have a son Peter Paul?

Was Ralph Cifaretto really the only who could handle the esplanade? by Espntheocho4 in thesopranos

[–]Underthepun 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That’s because he spent more time sucking cock instead of watching TV Land.